leftyhunter
Brev. Brig. Gen'l
- Joined
- May 27, 2011
- Location
- los angeles ca
Not the original slaves born free in Africa. Of course they were long dead by the time of the Civil War.Not all slaves were born into servitude.
Leftyhunter
Not the original slaves born free in Africa. Of course they were long dead by the time of the Civil War.Not all slaves were born into servitude.
Maybe in New York otherwise my definition fits over 90% of what an indentured servant is. It also fits the Irish in America which is what the OP is all about.Another example of compulsory indentured servitude was this:
In 1799, New York passed a Gradual Emancipation act that freed slave children born after July 4, 1799, but indentured them until they were young adults.
http://www.nyhistory.org/community/slavery-end-new-york-state
Again, you can't use slavery on the eve of the Civil War as the only standard by which to define the term "slavery."Not the original slaves born free in Africa. Of course they were long dead by the time of the Civil War.
Leftyhunter
Another example of compulsory indentured servitude was this:
In 1799, New York passed a Gradual Emancipation act that freed slave children born after July 4, 1799, but indentured them until they were young adults.
http://www.nyhistory.org/community/slavery-end-new-york-state
Indentured servants were sometimes held past their term (kidnapped).But, when you were a Black slave - no matter your location New York or Georgia - whether granted or emancipated free or not - it did not guarantee freedom. Nor did it stop them from being thrown (kidnapped) into slavery. Indentured Servitude didn't have that key factor.
Indentured servants were sometimes held past their term (kidnapped).
As I have pointed out already, not all children of slaves were themselves slave. Does this mean that their parents were not slaves?Indentured Servants - were paying off debts, etc - / Black slaves were not - they were placed in the system strictly for chattel work/property. Also, Indentured Servants weren't purchased as property -- their CONTRACT was - but not them personally. They worked to pay off debts, crimes, etc. Children of Indentured Slaves did not become Indentured Slaves. Black slaves and their offspring belonged to their owner.
Not all slaves were born into servitude.
They were not held longer or in servitude for racism or due to the color of their skin.
As I have pointed out already, not all children of slaves were themselves slave. Does this mean that their parents were not slaves?
Anyway, I think that I have taken this a little far from the OP.
I would just say, before signing off, that slavery existed long before Columbus set said for the U.S. and for many years after the Civil War. Slavery's definition cannot be limited to the circumstances of black slaves in America in 1860.
Indentured servitude should not be glossed over. It is a system of compelled labor. Not all people lost their freedom and became indentured servants through choice.
With that said, I don't see evidence that there were Irish slaves legally held in the United States at any time for being Irish. There were obviously men and women of Irish descent who were slaves in the U.S. right up until the Civil War. But they were not held as Irish.
There have been many people held as slaves for reasons other than the color of their skin.
Correct. But, if we are talking about Antebellum South - that is the main reason. At least, the reason for the 99% of those who were.
In other countries and cultures -- other factors were at play.
No reason not to talk about the South, but let's keep in mind, African slavery was also practiced in the North, until it wasn't. The African slave trade was dominated by New Englanders before it was outlawed and surreptitiously continued by the same people afterwards.
Again, just sayin'.
What year were said pictures of Irish children working on machines taken? Indentured servitude was outlawed not to much beyond the Revolution if memory serves. The Irish children may of been chil labourers. Not that child labor didn't have it's own issues but it wasn't the same as indentured servitude.I am not trying to prove a point or make light of the African American experience as slavery is concerned but when we are talking indentured servitude it can be and was as bad as slavery at times there are pictures of young Irish children change to weaving machines to do their job some for as many as seven years to pay for their trip here. Of course I understand this is nothing compared with slavery but if I was one of those children I might believe I received the short stick in life. Slavery or servitude were both horrible ways for people to be treated..
I will type the URL when I get home but it strongly appears that indentured servitude in North America ended by 1840 with the partial exception of California.I am not trying to prove a point or make light of the African American experience as slavery is concerned but when we are talking indentured servitude it can be and was as bad as slavery at times there are pictures of young Irish children change to weaving machines to do their job some for as many as seven years to pay for their trip here. Of course I understand this is nothing compared with slavery but if I was one of those children I might believe I received the short stick in life. Slavery or servitude were both horrible ways for people to be treated..