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- Feb 18, 2015
Forgive me for quoting from Gods and Generals, but yes, my favorite general did say, "The black flag. sir. We must give them the black flag."
Forgive me for quoting from Gods and Generals, but yes, my favorite general did say, "The black flag. sir. We must give them the black flag."
Thanks Allie--I am cnstantly being humbled here on this site. Maybe I should just "listen"...Actually there was a Congressional investigation into Fort Pillow, and there were black survivors of Fort Pillow, so he didn't kill every one, and neither was it ignored. Whether or not it was an atrocity and whether or not it was appropriately dealt with are points that are disputed enough to have entire books written about them, but those two statements are incorrect.
Actions speak louder than words, and Jackson even though a staunch Christian, DID push on to kill as many of the enemy as possible-surely you must not think that is just "noise"And yet, he didn't execute prisoners. As I said, it's a lot of noise.
R
Actions speak louder than words, and Jackson even though a staunch Christian, DID push on to kill as many of the enemy as possible-surely you must not think that is just "noise"
The thing about Sherman is that he was willing to attack civilians. While as far as I know he never specifically ordered anyone to attack civilian human beings, he did destroy civilian personal property, which led to some civilians being killed defending their homes. Which is a whole other can of worms... Yes, it did happen, but how frequently? Reporting can't be trusted to give accurate numbers. The lady Mary Chesnut knew personally who was put out into a freezing rain the same night she gave birth, did she end up okay? There was a newspaper report that my relative Shadrach Rice was shot by Yankees but not killed - yet by his own account he was never shot, and the interactions with raiding Yankees were peaceful except that they took all the pigs and left his family to starve. Another person I've talked to states that his grandmother was repeatedly hanged in order to extract information about hidden gold and died as a result - no newspaper account of that, yet many reports of people who were repeatedly hoisted into the air in the same way, and her death date does match the story.I know he didn't kill prisoners-that wouldbe against his morals. I'm simply saying he was not only a hard fighter, but more than that. It is a real dichotomy that his religion said one thing to him, but the soldier in him said another.
VERY interesting, Allie. I was talking about Jackson with rpkennedy-that was my last reply.The thing about Sherman is that he was willing to attack civilians. While as far as I know he never specifically ordered anyone to attack civilian human beings, he did destroy civilian personal property, which led to some civilians being killed defending their homes. Which is a whole other can of worms... Yes, it did happen, but how frequently? Reporting can't be trusted to give accurate numbers. The lady Mary Chesnut knew personally who was put out into a freezing rain the same night she gave birth, did she end up okay? There was a newspaper report that my relative Shadrach Rice was shot by Yankees but not killed - yet by his own account he was never shot, and the interactions with raiding Yankees were peaceful except that they took all the pigs and left his family to starve. Another person I've talked to states that his grandmother was repeatedly hanged in order to extract information about hidden gold and died as a result - no newspaper account of that, yet many reports of people who were repeatedly hoisted into the air in the same way, and her death date does match the story.
Best ever is "Sherman's Civil War" compiled by Brooks Simpson and another person.I've never read a bio of Sherman. Was about to start Fighting Prophet but I also have books by Kennett, Miers and Coburn. Suggestions? ?
I know he didn't kill prisoners-that wouldbe against his morals.
Are you speaking of all those rail trucks on the tracks? That was Hood's doing.And yes, the photos of Atlanta after Sherman was through with it--I have one on the wall in the basement...pathetic.
I've read that as many as 10 blocks of Atlanta were destroyed by hoods troops firing powder and ammunition on rail cars...........And yes, the photos of Atlanta after Sherman was through with it--I have one on the wall in the basement...pathetic.
I think I read that there were as many as 40 box cars full of powder. One would have done incredible damage.I've read that as many as 10 blocks of Atlanta were destroyed by hoods troops firing powder and ammunition on rail cars...........
The thing about Sherman is that he was willing to attack civilians. While as far as I know he never specifically ordered anyone to attack civilian human beings, he did destroy civilian personal property, which led to some civilians being killed defending their homes. <remainder snipped for brevity>
Yep, that clearly explains why soldiers would attack old women and women who had just given birth. They were being employed as an active part of the army.The people of the South supported their leader's actions against the United States and their active involvement was demanded by Southern leaders. I would think a good portion of your anger would be directed towards the Confederacy's own leaders who made the civilian population an active part of its army:
RICHMOND, VA., November 18, 1864.
General H. COBB,
Macon, GA.:
In addition to the troops of all kinds you should endeavor to get out every man who can render any services, even for short period, and employ negroes in obstructing roads be every practicable means. Colonel Rains, at Augusta, can furnish you with shells prepared to explode by pressure, and these will be effective to check an advance. General Hardee has, I hope, brought some re-enforcement, and General Taylor will probably join you with some further aid. You have a difficult task, but will realize the necessity for the greatest exertion.
JEFFN. DAVIS.
O.R. Series I, Vol. XLIV, Pg. 865
-----------------------------------------
RICHMOND, November 18, 1864.
TO THE PEOPLE OF Georgia:
You have now the best opportunity ever yet presented to destroy the enemy. Put everything at the disposal of our generals; remove all provisions from the path of the invader, and put all obstructions in his path. Every citizen with his gun, and every negro with his spade and axe, can do the work of a soldier. You can destroy the enemy by retarding his march. Georgians, be firm! Act promptly, and fear not!
B. H. HILL,
Senator.
I most cordially approved the above.
JAMES A. SEDDON,
Secretary of War.
ibid., pg. 867
----------------------------------
CORINTH, November 18, 1864.
TO THE PEOPLE OF Georgia:
Arise for the defense of your native soil! Rally round your patriotic Governor and gallant soldiers! Obstruct and destroy all roads in Sherman's front, flank, and rear, and his army will soon starve in your midst! Be confident and resolute! Trust in an overruling Providence, and success will crown your efforts. I hasten to join you in defense of your homes and firesides.
G. T. BEAUREGARD.
CORINTH, November 18, 1864.
ibid.
----------------------------------------
RICHMOND, November 19, 1864.
TO THE PEOPLE OF Georgia:
We have has a special conference with President Davis and the Secretary of War, and are able to assure you that they have done and are still doing all that can be done to meet the emergency that presses upon you. Let every man fly to arms! Remove your negroes, horses, cattle, and provisions from Sherman's army, and burn what you cannot carry. Burn all bridges and block up the roads in his route. Assail the invader in front, flank, and rear, by night and by day. Let him have no rest.
JULIAN HARTRIDGE,
J. H. ECHOLS,
JOHN T. SHEWMAKE,
MARK H. BLANDFORD,
GEO. N. LESTER,
JAS. M. SMITH,
Members of Congress.
ibid., pg. 869
-----------------------------------------------------------------
PETERSBURG, November 19, 1864.
His Excellency JEFFERSON DAVIS,
Richmond, Va.:
I have not received General Cooper's dispatch. I know of no troops within reach of Sherman except those in Georgia, nor do I know of a - . * All roads, bridges, provisions, &c., within Sherman's reach should be destroyed. The population must turn out. Wheeler could do much. It would be extremely hazardous and -. * Savannah will probably be Sherman's object. Troops that can be spared from Charleston, Savannah, &c., should take the field under Hardee.
R. E. LEE.
---------------------------------------------------------
MACON, November 19, 1864.
Honorable James A. SEDDON,
Secretary of War:
There is great scarcity of arms in Georgia and South Carolina to meet the enemy. It is necessary to have additional arms to put into the hands of the levy en masse ordered by the Legislature of Georgia, and the reserve militia of South Carolina now called out by Governor Bonham. Please have all spare arms sent to Charleston, S. C., subject to my orders.
W. J. HARDEE,
Lieutenant - General.
Yep, that clearly explains why soldiers would attack old women and women who had just given birth. They were being employed as an active part of the army.
Delusional at that point.The people of the South supported their leader's actions against the United States and their active involvement was demanded by Southern leaders. I would think a good portion of your anger would be directed towards the Confederacy's own leaders who made the civilian population an active part of its army:
RICHMOND, VA., November 18, 1864.
General H. COBB,
Macon, GA.:
In addition to the troops of all kinds you should endeavor to get out every man who can render any services, even for short period, and employ negroes in obstructing roads be every practicable means. Colonel Rains, at Augusta, can furnish you with shells prepared to explode by pressure, and these will be effective to check an advance. General Hardee has, I hope, brought some re-enforcement, and General Taylor will probably join you with some further aid. You have a difficult task, but will realize the necessity for the greatest exertion.
JEFFN. DAVIS.
O.R. Series I, Vol. XLIV, Pg. 865
-----------------------------------------
RICHMOND, November 18, 1864.
TO THE PEOPLE OF Georgia:
You have now the best opportunity ever yet presented to destroy the enemy. Put everything at the disposal of our generals; remove all provisions from the path of the invader, and put all obstructions in his path. Every citizen with his gun, and every negro with his spade and axe, can do the work of a soldier. You can destroy the enemy by retarding his march. Georgians, be firm! Act promptly, and fear not!
B. H. HILL,
Senator.
I most cordially approved the above.
JAMES A. SEDDON,
Secretary of War.
ibid., pg. 867
----------------------------------
CORINTH, November 18, 1864.
TO THE PEOPLE OF Georgia:
Arise for the defense of your native soil! Rally round your patriotic Governor and gallant soldiers! Obstruct and destroy all roads in Sherman's front, flank, and rear, and his army will soon starve in your midst! Be confident and resolute! Trust in an overruling Providence, and success will crown your efforts. I hasten to join you in defense of your homes and firesides.
G. T. BEAUREGARD.
CORINTH, November 18, 1864.
ibid.
----------------------------------------
RICHMOND, November 19, 1864.
TO THE PEOPLE OF Georgia:
We have has a special conference with President Davis and the Secretary of War, and are able to assure you that they have done and are still doing all that can be done to meet the emergency that presses upon you. Let every man fly to arms! Remove your negroes, horses, cattle, and provisions from Sherman's army, and burn what you cannot carry. Burn all bridges and block up the roads in his route. Assail the invader in front, flank, and rear, by night and by day. Let him have no rest.
JULIAN HARTRIDGE,
J. H. ECHOLS,
JOHN T. SHEWMAKE,
MARK H. BLANDFORD,
GEO. N. LESTER,
JAS. M. SMITH,
Members of Congress.
ibid., pg. 869
-----------------------------------------------------------------
PETERSBURG, November 19, 1864.
His Excellency JEFFERSON DAVIS,
Richmond, Va.:
I have not received General Cooper's dispatch. I know of no troops within reach of Sherman except those in Georgia, nor do I know of a - . * All roads, bridges, provisions, &c., within Sherman's reach should be destroyed. The population must turn out. Wheeler could do much. It would be extremely hazardous and -. * Savannah will probably be Sherman's object. Troops that can be spared from Charleston, Savannah, &c., should take the field under Hardee.
R. E. LEE.
---------------------------------------------------------
MACON, November 19, 1864.
Honorable James A. SEDDON,
Secretary of War:
There is great scarcity of arms in Georgia and South Carolina to meet the enemy. It is necessary to have additional arms to put into the hands of the levy en masse ordered by the Legislature of Georgia, and the reserve militia of South Carolina now called out by Governor Bonham. Please have all spare arms sent to Charleston, S. C., subject to my orders.
W. J. HARDEE,
Lieutenant - General.