US Conscription debate

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Who had the highest desertion rates during the 1863-1864 period? I mean the percentage not the total number. This would give us a good starting point to look at desertion. Comparing the total number of men deserting is not as useful.

Union desertion

In view of the conditions which prevailed in the war department and in the Union army, it is not surprising that desertion was a common fault. Even so the actual extent of it, shown in official reports, comes as a distinct shock. Though the determination of the full number is a bit complicated, the total would have been over 200,000. From New York there were 44,913 deserters according to the records; from Pennsylvania, 24,050; from Ohio, 18,354. The daily hardships of war, deficiency in arms, forced marches sometimes made straggling a necessary for less vigorous men), thirst, suffocating heat, disease, delay in pay, solicitude for family, impatience at the monotony and futility of inactive service, and (though this was not the leading cause) panic on the eve of battle—these were some of the conditioning factors that produced desertion. Many men absented themselves merely through unfamiliarity with military discipline or through the feeling that they should be "restrained by no other legal requirement than those of civil law governing a free people"; and such was a general attitude that desertion was often regarded "more as a refusal… to ratify a contract than as the commission of a grave crime."

The sense of war weariness, the lack of confidence in commanders, and the discouragement of defeat tended to lower morale of the Union army and to increase desertions. General Hooker estimated in 1863 that 85,000 officers and men had deserted from the Army of the Potomac, while it was stated in December of 1862 that no less than 180,000 of the soldiers listed on the Union muster roll were absent, with or without leave. Abuse of leave or furlough privilege was one of the chief means of desertion. Other methods were: slipping to the rear during a battle, inviting capture by the enemy (a method by which honorable service could be claimed), straggling, taking French leave when on picket duty, pretending to be engaged in repairing a telegraph line, et cetera. Some deserters went over to enemy not as captives but as soldiers; others lived in a wild state on the frontier; some turned outlaw or went to Canada; some boldly appeared at home; in some cases deserter gangs, as in western Pennsylvania, formed bandit groups.


To suppress desertion the extreme penalty of death was at times applied, especially after 1863; but this meant no more than the selection of a few men as public examples out of many thousands equally guilty. The commoner method was to make public appeals to deserters, promising pardon in case of voluntary return with dire threats to those who failed to return. That desertion did not prevent a man posing after the war as an honorable soldier is evident by a study of pension records. The laws required honorable discharge as a requisite for a pension; but in the case of those charged with desertion Congress passed numerous private and special acts "correcting" the military record.
Source: J.G. Randall, David Donald, The Civil War and Reconstruction pp. 329-331



Confederate Desertion

Desertion in the South though less extensive than in the North, was a factor of large significance; and a study of the causes that produced it goes far toward revealing the conditions which made the war intolerable to thousands among people and soldiers. As explained by Miss Ella Lonn, backwoodsmen and crackers were drawn into the army who had no sympathy with slavery and no interest in the issues of a struggle which they did not understand. The conscript net gathered in even Northerners and Mexicans, whose tendency to desert was natural enough. Many of the deserters were mere boys. Poor food and clothing lack of shoes and overcoats, and insufficient pay inevitably produced dissatisfaction. Sometimes the pay was fourteen months behind; Often a soldier on leave could not pay the transportation to return to his command. Unsanitary camp conditions had their debilitating effect. Soldiers kept in unwholesome inaction were more than commonly subject to homesickness and depression. Often the alternative was abandonment and neglect of wife and children or departure from the army – in other words a choice between two kinds of desertion, a dilemma in facing conflicting loyalties. Not a few Southern soldiers found themselves in the situation of an Alabaman who deserted the army when his wife wrote him: "We haven’t got nothing in the house to eat but a little bit of meal… I don’t want you to stop fighting them Yankees… but try and get off and come home and fix us up some and then you can go back." Some Arkansas soldiers deserted when informed that Indians were on a scalping tour near their homes. Indignant at extortioners and profiteers, soldiers would become disgruntled at the "rich man’s war and the poor man’s fight." For such men desertion bore no stigma; and, in sum, it appears that this factor (which after all, was but a reflection of many other factors) ‘contributed definitely to the Confederate defeats after 1862 and to the catastrophe of 1865."

J.G. Randall, David Donald, The Civil War and Reconstruction pp. 516-517.
 
I recommend reading about the Indiana Legion.
Interesting, I looked up the IN.gov article on the Indiana Legion. They mention some clashes with deserter gangs in two counties. It would be great to post something about them on one of our threads on home guard/militia threads.
We and I share a large amount of blame are drifting from the OP. If Indiana did indeed have Confederate guerrillas please post that to my thread "Union vs CSA guerrillas".
Leftyhunter
 
True. In a per capita basis it appears that the Confederates had a more serious desertion problem. The Confederates had a more qualitative desertion problem due to deserters joining the Union Army, or becoming Unionist guerrillas or freelance bandits. Two thirds of an army becoming deserters or even just AWOL during the critical summer of 1864 does show a serious lack of morale for the Confederacy.
Leftyhunter
The third left must have been virtual superheroes to have held out to the following Spring against such overwhelming odds. At least we can agree on one thing the overwhelming superiority of the Confederate fighting man still in the field.
 
The third left must have been virtual superheroes to have held out to the following Spring against such overwhelming odds. At least we can agree on one thing the overwhelming superiority of the Confederate fighting man still in the field.
My friend we have a whole thread devoted to that subject" by what metric was the CSA soldier superior". Right now we are supremely guilty of thread drift. We have debated and if you like can continue to debate desertion on on my other thread " how serious was desertion in the CSA".
Leftyhunter
 
Not surprising given that enlistments in the Federal armed forces exceeded the total free male population in the 11 Confederate States.

Which means what?

That the Confederacy was foolish to take on such odds?

That they couldn't count? That they clearly underestimated the resolve of the Union vs. the desperation and hardship such miscalculations would cause them over time?

I will never deny the fighting spirit of the Confederate soldier nor his endurance in the face of such odds.

But neither will I deny the courage and endurance of the Union soldier who gutted out the bad, early years in the East, who hung on long enough to get the job done.

Trying to compare the courage and fighting ability of either side by comparing desertion rates is a foolish game in my opinion.

We can all get excited by the moves and tactics made by either side, but it comes down to the end result, who wins and who loses.

Being petty about how the result came about demeans the sacrifices and courage both sides made.

IMO,
Unionblue
 
Which means what?

That the Confederacy was foolish to take on such odds?

That they couldn't count? That they clearly underestimated the resolve of the Union vs. the desperation and hardship such miscalculations would cause them over time?

I will never deny the fighting spirit of the Confederate soldier nor his endurance in the face of such odds.

But neither will I deny the courage and endurance of the Union soldier who gutted out the bad, early years in the East, who hung on long enough to get the job done.

Trying to compare the courage and fighting ability of either side by comparing desertion rates is a foolish game in my opinion.

We can all get excited by the moves and tactics made by either side, but it comes down to the end result, who wins and who loses.

Being petty about how the result came about demeans the sacrifices and courage both sides made.

IMO,
Unionblue
The courage and endurance of both sides was impressive.
 
Which means what?

That the Confederacy was foolish to take on such odds?

That they couldn't count? That they clearly underestimated the resolve of the Union vs. the desperation and hardship such miscalculations would cause them over time?

I will never deny the fighting spirit of the Confederate soldier nor his endurance in the face of such odds.

But neither will I deny the courage and endurance of the Union soldier who gutted out the bad, early years in the East, who hung on long enough to get the job done.

Trying to compare the courage and fighting ability of either side by comparing desertion rates is a foolish game in my opinion.

We can all get excited by the moves and tactics made by either side, but it comes down to the end result, who wins and who loses.

Being petty about how the result came about demeans the sacrifices and courage both sides made.

IMO,
Unionblue

That so few were able to take on so many for so long doesn't speak well for the quality of the opposition.

Expired Image Removed
 
That so few were able to take on so many for so long doesn't speak well for the quality of the opposition.

Expired Image Removed

And repeating such nonsense is just, repeated nonsense.

I really don't understand anyone trying to gain some sort of morbid fascination acting like they are some sort of latter-day spirit taking credit/possession of these long dead men in some kind of spitting contest. One might as well dig up these men and put on their skulls and skeletons when waging such verbal contests.

I am absolutely certain that neither side treated each other with the contempt shown by some of their 21st century fans, Union and Confederate.

These men, North and South, Union and Confederate, deserve our respect, our reverence, when we remember them. We shouldn't feel like we're in a competition to belittle one side or the other or score points long after their war is over.

As General Pickett said, when countering another noncombatant derisive comment about Union soldiers, "I believe the Yankees had something to do with it."

Unionblue
 
And repeating such nonsense is just, repeated nonsense.

I really don't understand anyone trying to gain some sort of morbid fascination acting like they are some sort of latter-day spirit taking credit/possession of these long dead men in some kind of spitting contest. One might as well dig up these men and put on their skulls and skeletons when waging such verbal contests.

I am absolutely certain that neither side treated each other with the contempt shown by some of their 21st century fans, Union and Confederate.

These men, North and South, Union and Confederate, deserve our respect, our reverence, when we remember them. We shouldn't feel like we're in a competition to belittle one side or the other or score points long after their war is over.

As General Pickett said, when countering another noncombatant derisive comment about Union soldiers, "I believe the Yankees had something to do with it."

Unionblue
Yes and no. Ft. Pillow and a latter battle where the USCT got some payback comes to mind. As you know arguably a third of Union Regiments spent part and or all their time on COIN and ain't nothing nice if they captured someone. Same goes for the Confederacy.
Sometimes when one side paroled the other then it was amicable.Nothing nice or Kumbayah about a POW camp on either side.
Leftyhunter
 
Yes and no. Ft. Pillow and a latter battle where the USCT got some payback comes to mind. As you know arguably a third of Union Regiments spent part and or all their time on COIN and ain't nothing nice if they captured someone. Same goes for the Confederacy.
Sometimes when one side paroled the other then it was amicable.Nothing nice or Kumbayah about a POW camp on either side.
Leftyhunter

Lefty,

I understand a bit where you are coming from.

But I just don't like the modern idea of refighting the war with dead men's bodies.

Sincerely,
Unionblue
 
And repeating such nonsense is just, repeated nonsense.

I really don't understand anyone trying to gain some sort of morbid fascination acting like they are some sort of latter-day spirit taking credit/possession of these long dead men in some kind of spitting contest. One might as well dig up these men and put on their skulls and skeletons when waging such verbal contests.

I am absolutely certain that neither side treated each other with the contempt shown by some of their 21st century fans, Union and Confederate.

These men, North and South, Union and Confederate, deserve our respect, our reverence, when we remember them. We shouldn't feel like we're in a competition to belittle one side or the other or score points long after their war is over.

As General Pickett said, when countering another noncombatant derisive comment about Union soldiers, "I believe the Yankees had something to do with it."

Unionblue
It's a matter of riding on the coat tails of the past. When one has nothing of their own to be proud of they have to find something to be proud of.
 
It is not true that Union soldiers deserted at a higher percentage than Confederate soldiers. Soldiers from both sides deserted at nearly the same rate. This would indicate that conscription or draft did not seem to be a determining factor when it came to deserting.

About 100,000 Confederate soldiers deserted
About 200,000 Union solders deserted

When you take in to account the Union Army had over twice as many total soldiers, the Confederacy had a higher percent desertion rate (this percentage jumps around depending on what source you use for the total number of Confederate soldiers).
 
These men, North and South, Union and Confederate, deserve our respect, our reverence, when we remember them. We shouldn't feel like we're in a competition to belittle one side or the other or score points long after their war is over.

"Us" "We" "Them". I do not know how anyone can study objectively with such bias hanging so heavily. As an elder once told me regarding the study of the Indian Wars: "The modern notion that Indians were nature loving saints is an easy trap to fall into. Just read the history as it happened."
 
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