Union forces were not better equipped through out the war

damYankee

1st Lieutenant
Joined
Aug 12, 2011
In another discussion I brought up the point that as late as mid 1863 many Union Regiments were not fully equipped nor had full rosters. The following quote is from the official record of the 4th Iowa Cav.

"
On the 29th of August 1863, the regiment with its brigade embarked for Vicksburg where it arrived on the 31st and again went into camp. On the 26th of September, General Sherman issued a General Order, from which the following paragraphs are quoted.

1. "Colonel Winslow will organize a force of about one thousand men, to move via Brownsville, Vernon and Benton, and to return to Yazoo and Mechanicsburg, to start tomorrow evening, special instructions to be given to the Commander, who will report in person in the Commanding General...

2. Colonel Winslow, Fourth Iowa Cavalry , is announced as Chief of Cavalry, and his orders will be obeyed by all the cavalry forces now attached to this command."

A detachment of 300 men of the Fourth Iowa Cavalry, under command of Captain William Pursel, constituted part of the force under Colonel Winslow, which moved, as instructed, making a diversion to attract the attention of the enemy from the movement of Sherman's main army, then marching towards Memphis, its real destination being Chattanooga. The Cavalry expedition was entirely successful, met with slight loss and returned to camp with eight prisoners captured in a skirmish with the enemy(1). On October 16th, the regiment started on another expedition, under command of Major General McPherson, and, in the first days' march, encountered the enemy several times losing two men killed and one captured(2). On the 4th of December, a detachment of 100 men of the regiment, under command of Major Spearman, accompanied a force of cavalry which moved by transports to Natchez and there cooperated with the command of General Gresham on an important expedition. This detachment returned to Vicksburg December 17th. On the 19th of December, a sufficient number of the Fourth Iowa Cavalry had re-enlisted to entitle the regiment to be designation as a Veteran organization. Recruits began to arrive from Iowa about the same time and the strength of the regiment was increased to nearly three-fourths of the maximum number. New and improved carbines were supplied and, for the first time in its history, the Fourth Iowa Cavalry was completely armed and equipped."

http://iagenweb.org/henry/Military/hcivwar3.htm

The truth is much of the supplies of uniforms, boots, pack gear and other necessities were of poor quality because in the rush to war contracts were often given to companies who were less than above board.
 
In another discussion I brought up the point that as late as mid 1863 many Union Regiments were not fully equipped nor had full rosters. The following quote is from the official record of the 4th Iowa Cav.

"
On the 29th of August 1863, the regiment with its brigade embarked for Vicksburg where it arrived on the 31st and again went into camp. On the 26th of September, General Sherman issued a General Order, from which the following paragraphs are quoted.

1. "Colonel Winslow will organize a force of about one thousand men, to move via Brownsville, Vernon and Benton, and to return to Yazoo and Mechanicsburg, to start tomorrow evening, special instructions to be given to the Commander, who will report in person in the Commanding General...

2. Colonel Winslow, Fourth Iowa Cavalry , is announced as Chief of Cavalry, and his orders will be obeyed by all the cavalry forces now attached to this command."

A detachment of 300 men of the Fourth Iowa Cavalry, under command of Captain William Pursel, constituted part of the force under Colonel Winslow, which moved, as instructed, making a diversion to attract the attention of the enemy from the movement of Sherman's main army, then marching towards Memphis, its real destination being Chattanooga. The Cavalry expedition was entirely successful, met with slight loss and returned to camp with eight prisoners captured in a skirmish with the enemy(1). On October 16th, the regiment started on another expedition, under command of Major General McPherson, and, in the first days' march, encountered the enemy several times losing two men killed and one captured(2). On the 4th of December, a detachment of 100 men of the regiment, under command of Major Spearman, accompanied a force of cavalry which moved by transports to Natchez and there cooperated with the command of General Gresham on an important expedition. This detachment returned to Vicksburg December 17th. On the 19th of December, a sufficient number of the Fourth Iowa Cavalry had re-enlisted to entitle the regiment to be designation as a Veteran organization. Recruits began to arrive from Iowa about the same time and the strength of the regiment was increased to nearly three-fourths of the maximum number. New and improved carbines were supplied and, for the first time in its history, the Fourth Iowa Cavalry was completely armed and equipped."

http://iagenweb.org/henry/Military/hcivwar3.htm

The truth is much of the supplies of uniforms, boots, pack gear and other necessities were of poor quality because in the rush to war contracts were often given to companies who were less than above board.

The word Shoddy comes to mind.
 
In comparison with confederate forces, federal armies were better supplied. However, the main problem faced by the US commissariat and quartermaster were the ability to provide goods and food of satisfactory quality (jgoodguy correctly calls to mind the word shoddy). Federal forces of course, also lacked ample quantities of these items, but supplies became more numerous over time as the northern industrial infrastructure kicked into gear. That did not, however, solve the problem of poor quality, which was still prevalent during the Spanish American War in 1898, when soldiers were sickened by contaminated meat.
 
Measurably better than the Confederates or than their counterparts in the Union Army?

Both, actually. The Navy had a different supply system, organized as a bureau (Bureau of Provisions and Clothing) directly under the Navy Secretary, who himself had once served in that very position. There were supply challenges, of course, particularly at the extremities of the blockade, but in large part the Navy logistic system worked quite well.

It did help, of course, that we're talking about a fraction the size of the land forces. The Union Navy had less than 100,000 men involved in it all told, counting allied groups, subcontractors, etc.; and ships can serve as their own repositories and transport of supply to an extent. (On the down side, apart from the inland river fleet, opportunities for foraging were very limited.)
 
I hope to not go off topic, but have a question if anyone has experience with Civil War 'Commissary General' of Subsistence.

I was given an old CW book that had, folded up in the pages, a set of orders for a soldier (1842) to report to the 'Commissary General' of Subsistence. It was signed by Sec War John C Spencer. Obviously I kept them, and googled to find a little bit about the Dept of Subsistence.

Question: I think after 1812-ish that as the Army grew there was a split (?) where they created an Ordnance Dept and completely separate 'subsistence' Dept. Both would have commissary generals to procure supplies.
Is that accurate or over simplified ? In other words was procuring 'beans' completely separate from procuring 'bullets'?

at least in CW era.
 
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This might be better phrased as "Union forces were not fully equipped....." Better is a relative term; it means better equipped than someone else, in this case presumably the Confederates. No doubt we could cite many examples of units on one side or the other being better equipped at various points, like those Union regiments which rearmed themselves with captured rifles after Vicksburg; but as a general rule it seems safe to say the Union armies were closer to being fully and properly equipped than their opponents.
 
In Eric Wittenburg's Union Cavalry Comes of Age, he describes cavalry units armed with just pistol and saber, or carbine and saber, or only some troopers carrying the full complement.
 
The truth is much of the supplies of uniforms, boots, pack gear and other necessities were of poor quality because in the rush to war contracts were often given to companies who were less than above board.

I'll not say you're wrong, but the quote and the link don't support this statement. There's got to be a good source of Northern commercial shenanigans we can look at that does.

Shoddy uniforms melting in the rain is pretty good, but there's got to be more we can sink our teeth into. I don't imagine it will compare to the privations suffered by the barefoot Confederates, but I'm all ears.
 
This is short term, but being barefoot wasn't necessarily a constant for Johnny Reb, either.

http://ehistory.osu.edu/books/official-records/015/0281

Someone else can volunteer commercial shenanigans, but while simply talking about how being a Union soldier did not automatically equal being fully supplied at all times, this is relevant.

Yes, it's relevant. From your source:

"General Shields' advance arrived at Falmouth May 22 (1862). His division was needing many things-shoes, trousers, ammunition, &c. I had caused supplies to be placed for it at Warrenton and Catlett's, so that it might refit on the march. All the artillery ammunition was condemned by an inspector of ordnance sent from the War Department to inspect it at Catlett's, and new ammunition was ordered from the Arsenal to meet it at Falmouth. This was to have been down so that we could march on Saturday, but the transport grounded near Alexandria and lost a day. Everything, however, was ready to march on Sunday. The wagons-containing five days' bread, coffee, sugar, and salt-were all loaded up, and with beef cattle on the hoof, were distributed to the several brigades. Arrangements were made for General Haupt"

So, they got everything they thought they needed. How much of this ended up in Confederate hands I have no idea, but I'll bet a significant amount.

The Union Commissary was a continual source of supply to Confederates at this time.

 
How many instances of federal troops wearing captured "johnny' uniforms have you read? How about the obverse?

Arms makers in the North in 1860

Ames
Mansfield and Lamb
Emerson & Silver
Colt
Bristol Firearms Co/Burnside
Springfield
Remington Herkimer
Starr
Whitney
Sharps
Smith & Wesson
Manhattan
Derringer
Jenks
Maynard
Gallager
Tryon
Robbins, Kendall & Lawrence
and on and on

Arms makers in the South in 1860

Palmetto
Virginia Manufactory

Pick up a copy of American Military Goods Dealers and Makers 1785-1915 by Bazelon & McGuinn and look at the Supplement/Appendix 2 1860 Military Goods Census: out of 119 listed private military suppliers, 0 are in the South.

In addition, after original muster, it was rare that any of the units in the field had their original or intended compliment.
 
My point is we often hear that the Union forces were better equipped than the CSA troops, perhaps the union forces serving in the AoP were, but the troops serving in the west were not.
 
In 1862 the Quartermaster of the St Louie Arsenal was begging to eliminate private supplier clothing contracts since the Arsenal had an abundant supply of uniforms. He also stated that the public clothing was superior and less costly that that of the private contractors. The Cincinnati Arsenal the same, by 1862 there abundant supplies for the Western armies.
 
Yes, it's relevant. From your source:

"General Shields' advance arrived at Falmouth May 22 (1862). His division was needing many things-shoes, trousers, ammunition, &c. I had caused supplies to be placed for it at Warrenton and Catlett's, so that it might refit on the march. All the artillery ammunition was condemned by an inspector of ordnance sent from the War Department to inspect it at Catlett's, and new ammunition was ordered from the Arsenal to meet it at Falmouth. This was to have been down so that we could march on Saturday, but the transport grounded near Alexandria and lost a day. Everything, however, was ready to march on Sunday. The wagons-containing five days' bread, coffee, sugar, and salt-were all loaded up, and with beef cattle on the hoof, were distributed to the several brigades. Arrangements were made for General Haupt"

So, they got everything they thought they needed. How much of this ended up in Confederate hands I have no idea, but I'll bet a significant amount.

The Union Commissary was a continual source of supply to Confederates at this time.

However, if we're talking about bare feet, the underlined part is a pretty clear indication that the Union troops were not always blessed with everything going their way. There was no magical fairy that made sure Union troops never marched their shoes to shreds, never had their wagons bog down, never lost their horses , etc.

Similarly, there was no curse on Confederate troops that they were always skeletons barely strong enough to walk and half naked.

Relevant on that end: http://www.blueandgraymarching.com/first-corps/texas-brigade-tx.html (one could pick another unit, but the Texas Brigade is far from home).

Or for 1863 http://www.blueandgraymarching.com/texas-brigade-robertson.html

I'm not going to say they're better equipped than Union troops without those to compare - just that if we're going to talk about privations suffered by anyone, we should look at the shape the ANV (or AoT, for those who have records) was actually in, as well as acknowledge that there were times supplies weren't keeping up with Union soldiers as well as we tend to generalize.

And the latter was why the condition of Shields's division was mentioned. Yes, they are being resupplied, but that sounds like a unit that at that time was certainly not in better shape for equipment and supplies just because it was a Federal unit.
 
My point is we often hear that the Union forces were better equipped than the CSA troops, perhaps the union forces serving in the AoP were, but the troops serving in the west were not.

Then we need to show this. We've not. Surely it can be done, with primary sources.
 
Then we need to show this. We've not. Surely it can be done, with primary sources.
The OP is from the official record of one unit. There are plenty of other records of Union forces having to wait for supplies, especially those operating in the western theater.
 
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