Troops for the Irish Brigade

Which Irish brigade do you mean? There was the famous one in New York, but others (including Wisconsin's 17th Infantry) that were called "Irish Brigades."
 
Thanks for your reply Keiri. I didn't know there was more than one Irish Brigade, I mean the one commanded by Meagher? that took terrible casualties in front of the wall at Fredericksburg.
 
My understanding was they were recruited by the officers (or people who wanted to be officers). Those men would hold meetings and sign people up. I know it's considered juvenile literature, but I remember Susan provost beller's book "never were men so brave: the Irish brigade during the Civil War" was interesting, on meagher's group, and gave background to it I simply didn't know. I'd recommend it.
 
Thank you for those links Legion Para.
There is a great song on YouTube "Kelly's Irish Brigade" about an Irish shopkeeper from St Louis who raised a 150 man cavalry unit for the Confederacy. Let's not forget the 4th Louisiana or Tiger brigade plus as mentioned both sides had majority Irish units."
I have a related thread I forgot the exact title if Irish units where religiously segregated. The answer was some where some where not. Sometimes Protestant and Irish Catholic troops got along and sometimes they didn't.
Leftyhunter
 
Only Irishmen recruited or did they accept any volunteers ?
McPherson points out Irish and German Catholics had the lowest enlistment rate of any white demographic group. It's no accident that their where anti draft riots by Irish Catholics in Boston and New York city and German Catholics rioted in Wisconsin.
I can't blame them they suffered a lot of discrimination .
Let's not forget many of the Unionist troops and guerrillas in North Carolina and Tennessee where Irish Protestant but their families had lived in the US for generations.
Arguably more Irish Catholics volunteered on a proportional basis with the Confederacy per past threads on that subject.
Leftyhunter
 
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McPherson points out Irish and German Catholics had the lowest enlistment rate of any white demographic group. It's no accident that their where anti draft riots by Irish Catholics in Boston and New York city and German Catholics rioted in Wisconsin.
I can't blame them they suffered a lot of discrimination . Approximately 60 odd years after the Civil War Joseph Kennedy Sr took his desperately ill son John to a nearby Protestant hospital and was denied treatment because he was Catholic. This despite the fact that Joseph Kennedy was a very wealthy banker and John's grandfather was the former mayor of Boston. Imagine what poor Irish Catholic immigrants had to go through. Its a wonder any joined the Union Army.
Let's not forget many of the Unionist troops and guerrillas in North Carolina and Tennessee where Irish Protestant but their families had lived in the US for generations.
Arguably more Irish Catholics volunteered on a proportional basis with the Confederacy per past threads on that subject.
Leftyhunter
I read and then had to re read that post Leftyhunter to make sure I'd read it right the first time. Incredible.
 
I read and then had to re read that post Leftyhunter to make sure I'd read it right the first time. Incredible.
Hi Alexjack,
My mom told me the above story about JFK being denied hospital treatment due to being Catholic. I can't confirm it . One always wants to believe what mom says but I will have to hold off on it . I would not be surprised if it where true but i would need to get a valid reference which I just can't find right now. JFK was a sickly child but I need a bit more then that.
Thanks
Leftyhunter
 
The 17th Wisconsin (Irish brigade) was told.. *on St Patrick's day* that they were ordered to leave Madison for Jefferson barracks, with *no pay*.you could imagine how that went over. The men were very poor, had indebted themselves to vendors (created tabs) in Madison while they couldn't give their families anything. People literally starved to death in Ireland, and these men just didn't trust that they'd ever see pay. So there was a riot. Men refused to go. Some were forcefully put on trains. A man lost an eye to a bayonet. There were bribes with the officers advancing men money to go. Men were arrested, bound, gagged, etc. 200 of them (on final estimate) sold their equipment and deserted. The rest eventually went and they were eventually paid. The Germans, according to a doctor's account I read, often played sick so they wouldn't have to go. I mean, many of them left Germany just so they weren't forced to fight in yet another war. An American war was the last thing they wanted a part of. But much like the Irish, many men volunteered or showed up when drafted, did their duty and performed bravely. The Irish brigade had many shining moments... But that was perhaps not one of them.
 
Let's not forget the 4th Louisiana or Tiger brigade plus as mentioned both sides had majority Irish units."
Many Louisiana units contained a significant number of foreign immigrants, but the 1st, 6th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 14th, and 20th Louisiana Infantry regiments, and Wheat's and Coppens' Battalions especially stood out. All were largely recruited from New Orleans. None of them were entirely Irish, but they were composed of a large number of Irishmen with the rest being a mix of other nationalities. Out of the those the 6th Louisiana was probably best known as an "Irish regiment," with about 54% Irish-born according to Lee's Tigers by Terry L. Jones. The 10th Louisiana Infantry was also referred to as "Lee's Foreign Legion" because it was so diverse.

There is a great song on YouTube "Kelly's Irish Brigade" about an Irish shopkeeper from St Louis who raised a 150 man cavalry unit for the Confederacy.
Also, I'll Edit to add that "Kelly's Irish Brigade" was actually a prewar all-Irish militia company recruited by Joseph Kelly in St. Louis, known as the Washington Blues. They became part of Kelly's Regiment in the Missouri State Guard and fought in many battles under Price. In winter of 1861-62 they transferred to Confederate service as part of Bevier's Battalion in Price's First Division, and later became Company F of the 5th Missouri Infantry under Captain Patrick Canniff. As Company F they fought throughout the rest of the war in the 1st Missouri Brigade (Cockrell's) east of the Mississippi River.
 
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The 17th Wisconsin (Irish brigade) was told.. *on St Patrick's day* that they were ordered to leave Madison for Jefferson barracks, with *no pay*.you could imagine how that went over. The men were very poor, had indebted themselves to vendors (created tabs) in Madison while they couldn't give their families anything. People literally starved to death in Ireland, and these men just didn't trust that they'd ever see pay. So there was a riot. Men refused to go. Some were forcefully put on trains. A man lost an eye to a bayonet. There were bribes with the officers advancing men money to go. Men were arrested, bound, gagged, etc. 200 of them (on final estimate) sold their equipment and deserted. The rest eventually went and they were eventually paid. The Germans, according to a doctor's account I read, often played sick so they wouldn't have to go. I mean, many of them left Germany just so they weren't forced to fight in yet another war. An American war was the last thing they wanted a part of. But much like the Irish, many men volunteered or showed up when drafted, did their duty and performed bravely. The Irish brigade had many shining moments... But that was perhaps not one of them.
i can't blame them. Not to mention that General Burnside needlessly sent many of Irish plus other troops to their slaughter at Fredericksburg. That must of not helped the recruiting efforts.
The irony of the Civil War is that Irish Catholics are fighting on behalf of British Protestant descends and from time to time killing their fellow Irish men Fredericksburg being a good example.
Leftyhunter
 
McPherson points out Irish and German Catholics had the lowest enlistment rate of any white demographic group. It's no accident that their where anti draft riots by Irish Catholics in Boston and New York city and German Catholics rioted in Wisconsin.
I can't blame them they suffered a lot of discrimination .
Let's not forget many of the Unionist troops and guerrillas in North Carolina and Tennessee where Irish Protestant but their families had lived in the US for generations.
Arguably more Irish Catholics volunteered on a proportional basis with the Confederacy per past threads on that subject.
Leftyhunter
I have heard McPherson say that a few times. I think it is quite misguided. Any sense of the stats behind it?
 
Irish made up 7% of soldiers, but they were 20% of naval enlistments. Although Germans made up 9% of the army, they were only 4% of the navy.
 
A lot of the "enlistment disparities" I have seen regarding immigrants tend to ignore those men who enlisted in the navy. In addition, many confuse "foreign-born" with "immigrants."
 
I have heard McPherson say that
The 17th Wisconsin (Irish brigade) was told.. *on St Patrick's day* that they were ordered to leave Madison for Jefferson barracks, with *no pay*.you could imagine how that went over. The men were very poor, had indebted themselves to vendors (created tabs) in Madison while they couldn't give their families anything. People literally starved to death in Ireland, and these men just didn't trust that they'd ever see pay. So there was a riot. Men refused to go. Some were forcefully put on trains. A man lost an eye to a bayonet. There were bribes with the officers advancing men money to go. Men were arrested, bound, gagged, etc. 200 of them (on final estimate) sold their equipment and deserted. The rest eventually went and they were eventually paid. The Germans, according to a doctor's account I read, often played sick so they wouldn't have to go. I mean, many of them left Germany just so they weren't forced to fight in yet another war. An American war was the last thing they wanted a part of. But much like the Irish, many men volunteered or showed up when drafted, did their duty and performed bravely. The Irish brigade had many shining moments... But that was perhaps not one of them.
The 17 Wisconsin was not part of the Irish Brigade.

Many Irish units, some as small as companies, called themselves "The Irish Brigade" to associate themselves with the brigade in the French army of that name. So you will see names like "Kelly's Irish Brigade" and "Mulligan's Irish Brigade." These were neither part of the Union army's Irish Brigade, nor were they even brigades.
 
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