So what was the first (skirmish) land battle of the Civil War?

MajGenl.Meade

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I googled "first land battle of the Civil War"

The Battle of Philippi formed part of the Western Virginia Campaign of the American Civil War, and was fought in and around Philippi, Virginia (now West Virginia) on June 3, 1861. A decisive Union victory, it was the first organized land action of the war, though generally viewed as a skirmish rather than a battle.

Actual Returns in order (ignoring Bull Run which picks up due to "First" Manassas)
The Nominees are:
Philippi - Google (above)
Philippi - Historynet
Philippi - National Parks Service (!) no Big Bethel yet
Philippi - Barbour County WVa
Philippi - WV Commerce
Philippi - Civil War Daily Gazette - still waiting Big Bethel!
Philippi - Gadling.com
Philippi - West Va University
Philippi - WV Culture
Philippi - Battle of Laurel Hill site (Tygart Valley) - c'mon Big Bethel! Just around the corner!
Philippi - WVA Tourism
Big Bethel - American Civil War.com - woot woot!
Philippi - Philippi.org
Philippi - brainly.com
Philippi - Civil War Preservation Trust (in Civil War Sites: the Official Guide to the Civil War
Philippi - WVCivilwar.com
Big Bethel - Amazon.com - well that's two votes for inaccuracy!
Philippi - Civildiscourse-history
Philippi - Roadside America

May I have the envelope please...............
 
I know that on June 1, 1861 there was a skirmish between a company of the 2nd US Cavalry and the Warrenton Rifles (later K Company, 17th Virginia) at Fairfax Courthouse. Probably 50 - 100 men on each side. CAPT John Quincy Marr died during the skirmish, considered the first Confederate* officer of the war to have perished.

*Edited.
 
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I know that on June 1, 1861 there was a skirmish between a company of the 2nd US Cavalry and the Warrenton Rifles (later K Company, 17th Virginia) at Fairfax Courthouse. Probably 50 - 100 men on each side. CAPT John Quincy Marr died during the skirmish, considered the first officer of the war to have perished.
This should be the answer. Fairfax Courthouse. The question was "...first skirmish battle.." Well, the first skirmish was Fairfax, the first battle (2 days later) with more troops was Phillipi.
 
I googled "first land battle of the Civil War"



Actual Returns in order (ignoring Bull Run which picks up due to "First" Manassas)
The Nominees are:
Philippi - Google (above)
Philippi - Historynet
Philippi - National Parks Service (!) no Big Bethel yet
Philippi - Barbour County WVa
Philippi - WV Commerce
Philippi - Civil War Daily Gazette - still waiting Big Bethel!
Philippi - Gadling.com
Philippi - West Va University
Philippi - WV Culture
Philippi - Battle of Laurel Hill site (Tygart Valley) - c'mon Big Bethel! Just around the corner!
Philippi - WVA Tourism
Big Bethel - American Civil War.com - woot woot!
Philippi - Philippi.org
Philippi - brainly.com
Philippi - Civil War Preservation Trust (in Civil War Sites: the Official Guide to the Civil War
Philippi - WVCivilwar.com
Big Bethel - Amazon.com - well that's two votes for inaccuracy!
Philippi - Civildiscourse-history
Philippi - Roadside America

May I have the envelope please...............
The question was "...skirmish battle.." ---The first skirmish was Fairfax Courthouse...2 days later, was Phillipi.
 
Depends how we define battle vs. skirmish. I'm surprised Carthage, MO didn't produce any hits.
I don't know why I'm harping on this, I just am. Sorry, but the question was not presented very well-- "...skirmish battle..." well, which? Skirmish--Fairfax Courthouse, June 1st, 1861...... Battle--(more organized)-Phillipi, but 2 days later...:smoke:
 
Fairfax wasn't a battle - simple. It was an accidental skirmish between some Union cavalry and local militia. The question was "skirmish battle".

Philippi was
the first organized land action of the war, though generally viewed as a skirmish rather than a battle
. So it was a "skirmish battle". Or a "battle skirmish". Or perhaps a "skittle barmish" - it fills both the criteria given.

But I think the National Park Service and Civil War Preservation Trust probably have more credibility than Wiki or I. They say Philippi - and they both know about Fairfax Courthouse.

What are the criteria for establishing truth in these things I wonder?

Whatever else is true, Big Bethel wasn't (by any means) the first skirmish battle of the Civil War. Not even close.
 
I googled "first land battle of the Civil War"



Actual Returns in order (ignoring Bull Run which picks up due to "First" Manassas)
The Nominees are:
Philippi - Google (above)
Philippi - Historynet
Philippi - National Parks Service (!) no Big Bethel yet
Philippi - Barbour County WVa
Philippi - WV Commerce
Philippi - Civil War Daily Gazette - still waiting Big Bethel!
Philippi - Gadling.com
Philippi - West Va University
Philippi - WV Culture
Philippi - Battle of Laurel Hill site (Tygart Valley) - c'mon Big Bethel! Just around the corner!
Philippi - WVA Tourism
Big Bethel - American Civil War.com - woot woot!
Philippi - Philippi.org
Philippi - brainly.com
Philippi - Civil War Preservation Trust (in Civil War Sites: the Official Guide to the Civil War
Philippi - WVCivilwar.com
Big Bethel - Amazon.com - well that's two votes for inaccuracy!
Philippi - Civildiscourse-history
Philippi - Roadside America

May I have the envelope please...............
 
At the very top of your post: you googled "first land battle..." not "first skirmish", which was Fairfax Court House...For the answer to be anything but Fairfax, the question would have to be "first actual battle".
 
What are the criteria for establishing truth in these things I wonder?

No real idea, but I guess in this case it's the distinction of first planned/organized action; where those armies (or one of them at least) was set up with the intent of picking a fight. I guess at Fairfax Courthouse this wasn't the case, but, I will say that I have a hard time agreeing with those sorts of definitions. Accidental collision seems like a poor reason, IMO, to not count something as a battle.

Whether Fairfax Courthouse would count as the first accidental collision or not I don't know.
 
Fairfax wasn't a battle - simple. It was an accidental skirmish between some Union cavalry and local militia. The question was "skirmish battle".

Another distinction, about militias, potentially influencing the definition of a battle/skirmish. The Warrenton Rifles were mustered into service in late April, shortly after the firing on Sumter. I'm fairly certain that the company was a pre-war militia formed in 1859. But, at that point they were no longer strictly militia (though their training and equipment was probably not much improved).

Oh, and I should make the correction that Marr was the first Confederate officer killed, Colonel Ellsworth having been killed earlier in Alexandria.
 
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The way the question was worded is the real kicker here. Technically it does open the door for multiple answers and detail, nitpicking debate. It should be either battle, skirmish or even chance encounter, in my humble opinion, but what do I know.. :spin:
 
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No real idea, but I guess in this case it's the distinction of first planned/organized action; where those armies (or one of them at least) was set up with the intent of picking a fight. I guess at Fairfax Courthouse this wasn't the case, but, I will say that I have a hard time agreeing with those sorts of definitions. Accidental collision seems like a poor reason, IMO, to not count something as a battle.

Whether Fairfax Courthouse would count as the first accidental collision or not I don't know.
It should and does count.
 
At the very top of your post: you googled "first land battle..." not "first skirmish", which was Fairfax Court House...For the answer to be anything but Fairfax, the question would have to be "first actual battle".

Well, the question said "skirmish battle" didn't it? So obviously it was seeking the first battle that might actually be a skirmish. That was Philippi - the experts agree.

Now Fairfax Courthouse (and that's a great place to visit; the Bailiwick Inn was wonderful) was a skirmish that might have become a battle but didn't.

Googling "first skirmish battle" got me one Fairfax, one Big Bethel (obviously wrong) and two Philippis. Also a sprinkle of "this is the first real skirmish of the Civil War" from 1837 and other silly dates long before 1861.

I think it's clear that Big Bethel is 100% wrong. Either Philippi (correct) or Fairfax (debatable*) should receive credit as correct answers.

*but definitely the first skirmish. But not a skirmish battle
 
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