Sherman Sherman and Roswell

He treated them as POWs. They signed the Oath or went to prison which some did. I guess he was trying to turn them into good Yankees.
Technically, they were prisoners of war. . But you'll need a source that shows Sherman demanded they sign the Loyalty Oath or that he sent them to prison before I can respond to that claim.
 
To me, if you're going to relocate someone strictly as a humanitarian gesture, you give them the option of whether to be relocated or not. It doesn't seem to me that Sherman did that, but then I haven't studied this issue in great detail.

As has been noted previously on this thread, Sherman had no problem leaving women and children to starve during his march through Georgia or the Carolinas (see below), so I find it odd that he would make an exception for the Roswell women. He relocated them strictly because he thought they were an asset to the Confederacy. That said, I think he did so in a relatively humanitarian way, unlike the way many propagandists have tried to portray the incident ever since.

I've posted before on this forum a letter written by the commander of a USCT regiment who was attached to Sherman's column as it marched through North Carolina in late March, 1865. He was appalled by what he saw:

"I confess I have been disappointed in the action of our army while marching through the enemy's country. The plundering and pillaging have been fearful - it seems to me disgraceful. The army of course has lived on the country as far as possible. This is right. Contributions would be demanded from the civil authorities and in case they failed to make them then there should be a system of foraging organized.

But the people should in no case be stripped of the means of subsistence. I fear Sherman's army has impoverished the whole country which he has traversed. For thirty miles in rear of Sherman's army, the country is full of "foragers". They have stripped everything from the people. I do not see how the people can live during the summer. Now I am not at all sure but the people merit this and it is perhaps the just retribution of the Almighty. Still, I believe it is cruel and wicked on the part of our army.

I have prevented this sort of action in my own regiment and have gained the ill will of many officers and men in doing so. While on the march the men in the regiments next to ours would break from the ranks and rush into houses and strip them of every particle of provisions. Of course it seemed surprise to my men that they should be made an exception, while rations were short and they were worn out with hard marching. I detailed men - placed them under an officer and sent them to plantations away from the road with instructions to leave all that was necessary for the subsistence of families. In this way I obtained all that was necessary for my men and injured no one - while I maintained discipline of my regiment. In many cases hundreds of country cured hams would be found buried on plantations."


- Union Colonel Giles Shurtleff, commanding officer 5th USCT Infantry, March 29, 1865

Source: Catherine Durhant Vorhees, The Colors of Dignity, pp. 186-188 (Nookbook version)
And this is North Carolina, where Sherman was supposedly going easy on the population. If Sherman was truly interested in keeping women and children from starving, he could have prevented this kind of treatment of the people in North Carolina with a lot less effort than it took to relocate the Roswell women.

(P.S. - I'm a bit confused as to what's happening on this thread. Is this one of those threads that has been split off from another? My apologies if I'm responding in the wrong place with an off-topic remark.)
 
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......

(P.S. - I'm a bit confused as to what's happening on this thread. Is this one of those threads that has been split off from another? My apologies if I'm responding in the wrong place with an off-topic remark.)
I can't respond to this for a few hours because I need to check some source that might question your viewpoint. But my first post was put up as a new thread and it got moved here. But since you are attempting to tie Sherman's later actions to Roswell to show a pattern of behavior, so to speak, instead of just an overall dump on Sherman, from my perspective what you are posting is on topic.

But, I will say for now I am not maintaining the moving the women was "strictly" a humanitarian gesture, only that it was partly one and not done out of malice towards the women. In his instructions for the march across Georgia, I know his orders said to target the wealthier citizens and leave the poorer ones alone. I haven't heard evidence that this wasn't what was generally done. (Of course, a lot of the bummers, and some of their commanders, were less than moral men). This would conflict with the Roswell incident with only poor women. I am also suspicious of the word "starving." Sherman's path wasn't all that wide (60 miles at best); I'd think there was food enough to be had north and south of his trail before anyone starved to death. I have never heard of people dying of starvation from his march (not that you said they did).
 
This was a program of Shermans to uproot supporters of the Southern cause and relocate them north of the Ohio River. These people ended up in Louisville. The women were contained in a refugee prison which was close to a Military Prison. North Across the River by Cook is a good book about it. I first learned about it about 35 years ago when I read an article n the ATL Journal. This story has been shared. Many others probably not.

If he wanted to do a humanitarian gesture, he would not of charged them with treason and sent them to Prison?
 
Here are some quotes from Hitt's Charged with Treason. Anyone can make of them what they will...

First, a line from the Sherman order I posted yesterday. "The poor women will make a howl. Let them take along their children and clothing, provided they have the means to carry or haul, else you can spare them." 7/7/64, p. 22-23

Lt. Kyger: "There were over 800 girls in town, want to go north; a squad of them were sent to Marietta today." 7/9, p. 39

Sgt. Mayer: "The employees were all women, and there were more of them than we had seen since leaving Nashville, and they were all from the North, were really good looking,..." (rude comment about southern women omitted). 7/10, p. 43

James Snell 916th army corp: "... In connection with [the burning of the mills], is the action of General Dodge, who told Sgt Ashton (7th Iowa) in charge of hospitals at Marietta, to hire as many of these women as he could, as nurses, rations, etc, allowed such by the Army regulations." 7/11, p. 57

Theodore Upson 100tt Indiana (In Marietta): "We have some 400 young women in the Old Seminary building near town. They have been working in a factory.... the factories are destroyed and the girls are to be sent South or North whichever way they want to go." 7/12 p. 61

I think all this muddies the "forced to go North" waters. That's all for now, I have to go on maneuvers because my general, who makes Sherman seem like a teddy bear, says we need to go XMAS shopping. Bah humbug!
 
The burning of the mill could be considered an act of war due to the purpose the factory was being used for. But why did he have to do anything with the women and children ? He could have left them be. They were not criminals. They were no different than the people who farmed, or sewed, or cooked, etc, etc. all over the south to support the Southern war effort.

Union troops under Sherman's Command left countless thousands of people destitute during the Atlanta campaign and March to the Sea without shipping them Northward. Sherman was evil IMO.

You can thank your own Southern leaders for Sherman's actions against some of the Southern civilians, their towns and villages. You ought to direct your ire at them :


RICHMOND, VA., November 18, 1864.
General H. COBB,
Macon, GA.:
In addition to the troops of all kinds you should endeavor to get out every man who can render any services, even for short period, and employ negroes in obstructing roads be every practicable means. Colonel Rains, at Augusta, can furnish you with shells prepared to explode by pressure, and these will be effective to check an advance. General Hardee has, I hope, brought some re-enforcement, and General Taylor will probably join you with some further aid. You have a difficult task, but will realize the necessity for the greatest exertion.
JEFFN. DAVIS.
55 R R - VOL XLIV
Page 865

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RICHMOND, November 18, 1864.
TO THE PEOPLE OF Georgia:
You have now the best opportunity ever yet presented to destroy the enemy. Put everything at the disposal of our generals; remove all provisions from the path of the invader, and put all obstructions in his path. Every citizen with his gun, and every negro with his spade and axe, can do the work of a soldier. You can destroy the enemy by retarding his march. Georgians, be firm! Act promptly, and fear not!

B. H. HILL,
Senator.
I most cordially approved the above.
JAMES A. SEDDON,
Secretary of War.
O.R. Series I, Vol. XLIV, p 867
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CORINTH, November 18, 1864.
TO THE PEOPLE OF Georgia:
Arise for the defense of your native soil! Rally round your patriotic Governor and gallant soldiers! Obstruct and destroy all roads in Sherman's front, flank, and rear, and his army will soon starve in your midst!
Be confident and resolute! Trust in an overruling Providence, and success will crown your efforts. I hasten to join you in defense of your homes and firesides.
G. T. BEAUREGARD.
CORINTH, November 18, 1864.
ibid.
----------------------------------------

RICHMOND, November 19, 1864.
TO THE PEOPLE OF Georgia:
We have has a special conference with President Davis and the Secretary of War, and are able to assure you that they have done and are still doing all that can be done to meet the emergency that presses upon you. Let every man fly to arms! Remove your negroes, horses, cattle, and provisions from Sherman's army, and burn what you cannot carry. Burn all bridges and block up the roads in his route. Assail the invader
in front, flank, and rear, by night and by day. Let him have no rest.
JULIAN HARTRIDGE,
J. H. ECHOLS,
JOHN T. SHEWMAKE,
MARK H. BLANDFORD,
GEO. N. LESTER,
JAS. M. SMITH,
Members of Congress.
ibid., pg. 869

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PETERSBURG, November 19, 1864.
His Excellency JEFFERSON DAVIS,
Richmond, Va.:
I have not received General Cooper's dispatch. I know of no troops within reach of Sherman except those in Georgia, nor do I know of a - . * All roads, bridges, provisions, &c., within Sherman's reach should be destroyed. The population must turn out. Wheeler could do much. It would be extremely hazardous and -. * Savannah will probably be Sherman's object. Troops that can be spared from Charleston, Savannah, &c., should take the field under Hardee.
R. E. LEE.

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MACON, November 19, 1864.
Honorable James A. SEDDON,
Secretary of War:
There is great scarcity of arms in Georgia and South Carolina to meet the enemy. It is necessary to have additional arms to put into the hands of the levy en masse ordered by the Legislature of Georgia, and the reserve militia of South Carolina now called out by Governor Bonham. Please have all spare arms sent to Charleston, S. C., subject to my orders.
W. J. HARDEE,
Lieutenant - General.
 
Once again, the focus of this thread was to be on the Roswell women themselves, as there were numerous other threads where individuals spent their time bashing Sherman. If you wish to engage in defending or bashing Sherman, please take it to one of those other threads.

Sorry, I responded to an earlier post before I read this. I will comply.
 
JPK Huson 1863 is one of the forum hosts of Ladies Tea--I, 18th Virginia, am a co-host. We pulled together a lot of information about the Roswell Women from other threads and tried to keep the discussion focused on what had happened to the Women, without side discussions of Sherman or Lee or other generals.

Ladies Tea is not just "some women's subforum," it's a very serious forum where we try to look at women and the Civil War, with lots of threads on topics like refugees, Civil War nursing, hospitals, food riots, women who worked in munitions factories, women artists, grist mills, and a variety of other topics about what was happening on the homefront during the War.
 
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Ladies Tea is not just "some women's subform," thank you very much, it's a very serious forum where we try to look at women and the Civil War, with lots of threads on topics like refugees, Civil War nursing, hospitals, food riots, women who worked in munitions factories, women artists, grist mills, and a variety of other topics about what was happening on the homefront during the War.

Here, here. It is an excellent forum that provides some of the best visuals on this board. Sometimes its just good to take in information without having to spar.
 
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