Photo Analysis: Confederate Torpedo Boat David

My copy arrived yesterday, I've read through the ironclads and I'm very sorry to say that so far, I think I wasted my money .

I think that's a bit on the harsh side. While I'd agree that there's not much that's new-- a lot of the ironclads portion has been known for a long time, for instance-- it has value as an overall synthesis and summary.
 
I'm sorry to hear this, I've been debating about adding this to my collection...
If you know nothing about the CSN ,buy it but you would be better off getting a copy of Paul Silverstones Warships of the Civil War Navies. or The Confederate States Navy, it's ships men and organisation edited by Dr William Still.;
 
If you know nothing about the CSN ,buy it but you would be better off getting a copy of Paul Silverstones Warships of the Civil War Navies. or The Confederate States Navy, it's ships men and organisation edited by Dr William Still.;

I disagree RE Silverstone; he's good for basic stats and capsule histories, but the linking narrative and context is missing.

No argument on Still, et. al., Confederate Navy-- that's one of the best books in the subject area I've ever seen.
 
Hi Mark
Received my copy the day before you but so far have only skimmed through it. Respect his work, but do not most people report the "large david" as being some 160' long vs around 112' feet or so? (did read once where it was claimed that with the spar pole & torpedo & hull all measured some 150'). That seems kind of hard to confuse vessels of these different sizes as one? What doe he know that we do not?
Is it possible he is talking about another large David?
The only large david have heard about is the one who some people also call it a blockade runnert.

Grizz
There were two large "segar-shaped" blockade runners. One ended up in Brooklyn- that is the one most people have seen the photo of at Bennett's mill and the other, known as Preston was taken to Washington and sold for scrap. Never used a spar torpedo.
 
There were two large "segar-shaped" blockade runners. One ended up in Brooklyn- that is the one most people have seen the photo of at Bennett's mill and the other, known as Preston was taken to Washington and sold for scrap. Never used a spar torpedo.
Did either of these boats receive their engine(s)? And if so, do we know how they were to be driven? Because of the size, I suspect that might have had two screws on shafts under the stern. A single prop like the David would tend to be less efficient as it would probably be of relatively small diameter.
 
I'm intrigued by the size and height of the cuddy on this boat. It slopes inward which would not necessarily give all that much protection off shore. A number of these boats had fittings at the top of the cuddy to redirect incoming waves back to their source. Its like the difference between a straight bow and what the Germans called an 'Atlantic' bow. The intent is to keep the vessel from swamping. As a class, the Davids were pretty much a CS Army project. The CSN went to a very different design with better overhead protection for the crew and boiler. In the ORNs there are several references to a torpedo boat built at Savannah that was shipped to Mobile by rail. One of the Mobile boats got steam up in Jan or Feb 1865 at Mobile was commanded at that time by a "Captain Lynch".
 
Did either of these boats receive their engine(s)? And if so, do we know how they were to be driven? Because of the size, I suspect that might have had two screws on shafts under the stern. A single prop like the David would tend to be less efficient as it would probably be of relatively small diameter.
Both are supposed to have made trans-Atlantic trips with 200-300 bales of cotton. Preston was supposed to be especially successful. However, I unfortunately know nothing of the motive power for either one.
My (absolute) guess is that the hull shape dictated the screw configuration and limited it to one, otherwise why not alter the stern to better accommodate an additional screw? As I said tough, pure speculation on my part.
 
I'm intrigued by the size and height of the cuddy on this boat. It slopes inward which would not necessarily give all that much protection off shore. A number of these boats had fittings at the top of the cuddy to redirect incoming waves back to their source. Its like the difference between a straight bow and what the Germans called an 'Atlantic' bow. The intent is to keep the vessel from swamping. As a class, the Davids were pretty much a CS Army project. The CSN went to a very different design with better overhead protection for the crew and boiler. In the ORNs there are several references to a torpedo boat built at Savannah that was shipped to Mobile by rail. One of the Mobile boats got steam up in Jan or Feb 1865 at Mobile was commanded at that time by a "Captain Lynch".
That plain style coaming hatch seems to be the earliest. There are several photos and sketches showing this style and then there are at least two distinct boats with the style of the so-called Midge. I think the inward sloop may be a matter of perspective... the entire boat appears to be listing to starboard... although it is difficult to tell at the bow.
As a class, the vessels were actually neither Army or Navy, but the products of two (or possibly three) private ventures. David was loaned to the CS Navy, while any others (David-class) were used by the Army. The two torpedo boats in Savannah, which may or may not be David-class- I am leaning towards not, were apparently Army boats.
 
Hi JOhn,
I don't know if I have put this up before, but anyway ,here is a list of all the known (so far) Southern Torpedo craft.


SQUIB TYPE TORPEDO LAUNCHES
Surface picket / patrol / torpedo boat, steam, single screw. Crew 12 speed 10 - 11 knots, 46ft x 6ft 3 ins x 3ft 9 ins.
Armament : 1 - 18ft 50pdr spar and small arms.
Designed by William Graves

Hornet Built at Richmond Va 1862 - 64, sunk in collision with CSS Allison January 26th 1865.
Scorpion Built at Richmond Va, completed 1864, tooke part in the attack on city point 23 -24th January 1865, burned after grounding.
Squib Built at Richmond Va, successfully torpedoed USS Minnesota April 9th 1864, sent by rail to Wilmington Nc, destroyed Jan / Feb 1865
Wasp Built at Richmond Va, career details unknown.
Un-named Built at Mobile Ala, career details unknown
Un-named Built at Mars Bluff Navy yard Sc . Completed February 1865, fate unknown.
Viper Building at Columbus Ga, captured complete, lost at sea May 26 1865
Un- named Building at Columbus Ga, fate unknown.
Un-named Building at Wilmington, destroyed by accidental fire.

40 -50ft x 5 - 6ft x 3 ft, steam, crew 15. 2 -12pdr howitzers, 1 spar torpedo

Nos 1 -4 Building at Richmond Va, engines sent through the blockade, September 1864, uncertain if they ever arrived.
6 un-named Building in various yards, engines, built by Clyde Bank Foundry, sent through the blockade, all sent from Mobile Ala to Yazoo river February 22nd 1865.

Dimensions uncertain, 4 x 40 -100 pdr spar torpedo, twin screws, 10 plus knots, with a 3ft draft crew 5
6 un-named Contracted for August / September 1864.Built by Thorneycroft, Chiswick England , sold to Russia.

Hi John,
You group all these vessels together, implying (to me) that they were all Graves boats. Is that the case and if so, is there a source that associates these boats in that way or have you compiled the info from various references?
 
I
SEMI SUBMERSIBLES
DAVID TYPE

Ordered by Navy Secretary Mallory August 1864 ,building at Mare & co Millwall, London. Never delivered. (Sold to Russia?)
160ft X 28ft X 11ft
steam, 1 screw, 2ft freeboard, 4 tube mounted spar torpedoes, 1 each bow & stern, port & starboard
.

What's all this, then?
SilveradoCleese.jpg
 
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