Philadelphia's old MOLLUS Museum collection

Eric Wittenberg

1st Lieutenant
Keeper of the Scales
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Location
Columbus, OH
Count me as being vehemently opposed to this arrangement. Having seen that collection, I know it is nothing short of spectacular. The airport terminal that is the Gettysburg Visitor Center already fails to display the vast majority of the artifacts in the Rosensteel Collection, claiming lack of display space. If that's the case, what are the odds of even a small percentage of these items ever being displayed again? Slim to none.

Shame on Ed Rendell for breaching the agreement to fund a new museum.

These items should be on display at the museum in Harrisburg, where at least they would be seen, instead of languishing in storage.

The Constitution Center exhibit will be great. I attended (Cash was there too) an event with Jeffrey Rosen at Dickinson College in March, and know him to be a dedicated and enthusiastic director of a great project. But that exhibit is NOT a Civil War exhibit. It's constitutional law exhibit, and there is no place in it for most of the artifacts in the MOLLUS Museum's collection.

I will, however, be pleased to see some of those artifacts back home in Philadelphia where they belong, which will be the best thing about that exhibit.



 
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Heartbreaking. You are right, these artifacts will be boxed up in storage, courtesy of the Foundation, never to be seen again. Right along with the majority of the artifacts of the old GNP VC, which will never again see the light of day.
Is it lack of interest that seems to be causing more and more historical collections to be sidelined?
 
Heartbreaking. You are right, these artifacts will be boxed up in storage, courtesy of the Foundation, never to be seen again. Right along with the majority of the artifacts of the old GNP VC, which will never again see the light of day.
Is it lack of interest that seems to be causing more and more historical collections to be sidelined?

Occasionally, I read stories saying that the financial situation for non-profits like these is not great. And many municipalities lack the resources to step in and be white knights.

As an aside, when I talk to people who have historical artifacts, I tell them to do due diligence concerning the receiving institution. For old photographs or documents, it might be better to place them with a large institution like the Library of Congress (LOC), than with a local museum... there might be a better chance that the LOC will be financially viable over the long term.

- Alan
 
This is bad news indeed. I know there were discussions about breaking the collection among multiple Philly-based museums, which could have been worse, but the basement of the Gettysburg Museum is a pretty horrible fate for that collection. Tiny part of the collection is actually in display in the Gettysburg museum on the back wall of the Bookstore (along with Jeff Davis' housecoat.)

Totally agree about Harrisburg, but unfortunately the Philly - Harrisburg politics are the way they are (and that was Ed Randell's issue too.)

Thankfully, the book, print and letter collection, which is the true gem of the museum, looks to have found a permanent home at Union league.
 
Occasionally, I read stories saying that the financial situation for non-profits like these is not great. And many municipalities lack the resources to step in and be white knights.

As an aside, when I talk to people who have historical artifacts, I tell them to do due diligence concerning the receiving institution. For old photographs or documents, it might be better to place them with a large institution like the Library of Congress (LOC), than with a local museum... there might be a better chance that the LOC will be financially viable over the long term.

- Alan

As a researcher who has tried to access ACW era documents both at the LOC and in several smaller places, I wholeheartedly disagree. Accessing documents that are stored there is a nightmare. Furthermore, a large percentage of their manuscripts are stored off-site so one needs to figure out a month ahead is which collection a particular thing is and where that particular collection lives, so the librarians can get to it, if it is around, and have it ready for use when you plan to use. And did I mention the red tape one needs to go through just to visit the library. Nightmare...

I love their online stuff though :smile:
 
As a researcher who has tried to access ACW era documents both at the LOC and in several smaller places, I wholeheartedly disagree. Accessing documents that are stored there is a nightmare. Furthermore, a large percentage of their manuscripts are stored off-site so one needs to figure out a month ahead is which collection a particular thing is and where that particular collection lives, so the librarians can get to it, if it is around, and have it ready for use when you plan to use. And did I mention the red tape one needs to go through just to visit the library. Nightmare...

I love their online stuff though :smile:

Hah, I don't mean to say that the LOC will necessarily be easier to deal with. Ease of use would be a reason to contribute an item to, say, a local site. But is that site going to be around?

I want to avoid naming names. But I have spoken to people about donating materials to certain places. And I have doubts about the financial viability of those places, and, about their ability to take care of the donated items, and I've said so.

I will note one particular case - the case of the city of Detroit. Due to its financial problems, there was a discussions about "whether masterpieces at the Detroit Institute of Arts" could or would be sold as a way to deal with the city's debt. The museum was saved thanks to a plan that was "aided by nearly a billion dollars in private and state rescue money." One aspect of the plan was that the museum was removed from city ownership, thus insulating it from the city's financial problems.

The Detroit Institute of the Arts was lucky, but other institutions may not be. Again, I recommend due diligence with regard to finding places for donating items of historical value.

- Alan
 
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As a CW artifacts collector, the many discussions with my fellow collectors leads to the general consensus that this is EXACTLY why we prefer NOT to donate our items to museums. The idea that a rare artifact we proudly possess and is historically significant, that we feel should be on public display for all to enjoy and study, and then to learn that it may be (as is often the case) stuffed away in a box in a basement somewhere forever. Or sold off when it was donated in the first place.
 
Heartbreaking. You are right, these artifacts will be boxed up in storage, courtesy of the Foundation, never to be seen again. Right along with the majority of the artifacts of the old GNP VC, which will never again see the light of day.
Is it lack of interest that seems to be causing more and more historical collections to be sidelined?
It is a different philosophy of museum display. Static displays of artefacts are being displaced by "modern" often interactive displays that appeal to younger audiences who have short attention spans and need to touch stuff. "Apps" and hands on displays are the new museum style.
Not that it helps, but the artefacts are stored in proper, climate controlled facillities that will in the long run extend their lives.
 
I edited a book of letters by a Pennsylvania infantry officer who lived until 1928. Not long after he died, his son donated many of his effects (sword, uniform, gauntlets, etc.) to a local historical society in Pennsylvania (which is still in existence today). In the late 70's/early 80's the society decided that all of their CW artifacts (including this officers') no longer fit with their "mission" and sold them all off at auction. Unfortunate, but not uncommon.
 
As Unionblue would say.................Change is the only constant.

Sad to hear this but hopefully it will not be as bad as predicted. I suppose they felt like that is where it belonged.



38th North Carolina.jpg

Respectfully,
William
 
I edited a book of letters by a Pennsylvania infantry officer who lived until 1928. Not long after he died, his son donated many of his effects (sword, uniform, gauntlets, etc.) to a local historical society in Pennsylvania (which is still in existence today). In the late 70's/early 80's the society decided that all of their CW artifacts (including this officers') no longer fit with their "mission" and sold them all off at auction. Unfortunate, but not uncommon.
I concur with your opinion wholeheartedly. I have no idea what to do with my historical collection of artifacts, books, letters, original research etc. My attorney has been harassing me for years now about my last will and testament. I have no family members to leave my collection to; I am not married and I have no kids. At one time we had a rather large family but now with many deaths through the years our family is very small. We have several county historical societies and several universities close to my home. Because of the horror stories outlined in the above posts I really don't want to devise any of my stuff to any historical societies or even a university library or archive. Do you have any suggestions for me to consider?
 
I concur with your opinion wholeheartedly. I have no idea what to do with my historical collection of artifacts, books, letters, original research etc. My attorney has been harassing me for years now about my last will and testament. I have no family members to leave my collection to; I am not married and I have no kids. At one time we had a rather large family but now with many deaths through the years our family is very small. We have several county historical societies and several universities close to my home. Because of the horror stories outlined in the above posts I really don't want to devise any of my stuff to any historical societies or even a university library or archive. Do you have any suggestions for me to consider?

I think that some of the angst you are rightfully feeling may arise from the fact that it would appear that your collection is a mix of two and three dimensional objects, i.e. letters/photos/docs AND artifacts. Many institutions have the know-how to care for and properly display/make available for use one and not the other. In my opinion, the US Army Military History Institute in Carlisle PA might be your best bet, as they would properly care for both (although the artifacts, unless truly unique and one of a kind) might never see the light of the day. The letters/papers/photos would be properly catalogued and stored, and would be made available to researchers, writers and other interested parties (and likely never sold off). If the universities near you have any significant Civil War holdings, they might be a good fit for the paper-based objects as well.
 
I concur with your opinion wholeheartedly. I have no idea what to do with my historical collection of artifacts, books, letters, original research etc. My attorney has been harassing me for years now about my last will and testament. I have no family members to leave my collection to; I am not married and I have no kids. At one time we had a rather large family but now with many deaths through the years our family is very small. We have several county historical societies and several universities close to my home. Because of the horror stories outlined in the above posts I really don't want to devise any of my stuff to any historical societies or even a university library or archive. Do you have any suggestions for me to consider?

I have the same issue, and it's one that I fret about constantly. I'm married, but have no kids and no family members with even a passing interest.

I am having some discussions with a not-for-profit (I am not prepared to identify it yet) to take my entire library (2000+ volumes) when the time comes for me to part with it. It will have conditions attached: the collection must be kept together and cannot be sold off. There aren't a lot of other options short of selling it off, and I really don't want to do that.
 
I think that some of the angst you are rightfully feeling may arise from the fact that it would appear that your collection is a mix of two and three dimensional objects, i.e. letters/photos/docs AND artifacts. Many institutions have the know-how to care for and properly display/make available for use one and not the other. In my opinion, the US Army Military History Institute in Carlisle PA might be your best bet, as they would properly care for both (although the artifacts, unless truly unique and one of a kind) might never see the light of the day. The letters/papers/photos would be properly catalogued and stored, and would be made available to researchers, writers and other interested parties (and likely never sold off). If the universities near you have any significant Civil War holdings, they might be a good fit for the paper-based objects as well.
Thank You for the suggestions. I have been doing research for a writing project at the Military History Institute in Carlisle for over two years now and have seriously considered their institution as a partial solution to my dilemma.
 
I have the same issue, and it's one that I fret about constantly. I'm married, but have no kids and no family members with even a passing interest.

I am having some discussions with a not-for-profit (I am not prepared to identify it yet) to take my entire library (2000+ volumes) when the time comes for me to part with it. It will have conditions attached: the collection must be kept together and cannot be sold off. There aren't a lot of other options short of selling it off, and I really don't want to do that.
Eric. I have a couple of ideas I have been thinking about as a possible solution to our problem and would like to discuss them with you at our Gettysburg Retreat in September.
 
Count me as being vehemently opposed to this arrangement. Having seen that collection, I know it is nothing short of spectacular. The airport terminal that is the Gettysburg Visitor Center already fails to display the vast majority of the artifacts in the Rosensteel Collection, claiming lack of display space. If that's the case, what are the odds of even a small percentage of these items ever being displayed again? Slim to none.

Shame on Ed Rendell for breaching the agreement to fund a new museum.

These items should be on display at the museum in Harrisburg, where at least they would be seen, instead of languishing in storage.

The Constitution Center exhibit will be great. I attended (Cash was there too) an event with Jeffrey Rosen at Dickinson College in March, and know him to be a dedicated and enthusiastic director of a great project. But that exhibit is NOT a Civil War exhibit. It's constitutional law exhibit, and there is no place in it for most of the artifacts in the MOLLUS Museum's collection.

I will, however, be pleased to see some of those artifacts back home in Philadelphia where they belong, which will be the best thing about that exhibit.



http://www.philly.com/philly/news/2...with_Constitution_Center_exhibit_planned.html
Wasn't this collection displayed in Philly? I visited years ago. What happened to that site?
 
It was displayed in Philadelphia in an old mansion on Pine Street. They lost that building. Interestingly, it was less than a block down the street from my aunt and uncle's house.

It was sold in 2012. And it is again for sale right now. A plaque and a historic marker for it.

I think that there is much more to this story and I believe that if they wanted to they could have bought the building and stayed. They left in 2008 with a check of $1.5 M to help in relocation from the City of Philadelphia. The building after major renovation to turn it into a house sold for around $2M in 2012. I am willing to bet that that $1.5M would be enough to buy the building permanently in 2008. Something else must have been going on.

BTW, based on its bylaws, the Museum is bound to the City of Philadelphia (Thus the check from Mayor Street.) As a matter of fact, the City Attorney General blocked a potential loaning of some of the Museum Artefacts to another Museum in VA, back in 2001. For certain, the City could have/can block the move of the artifacts to Gettysburg, based on this. Not sure whether the brand new mayor will have the fortitude to do it. We shall see...

There might be another chapter in this story
 
It was displayed in Philadelphia in an old mansion on Pine Street. They lost that building. Interestingly, it was less than a block down the street from my aunt and uncle's house.
Yes, that was where I saw it. Not the greatest space for display, but I am sorry to hear that the public no longer has access to the collection.
 
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