"One Of the Reasons For the Terrible War"

Bryan_C

First Sergeant
Joined
Jul 21, 2012
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North of Fort Stevens, DC
My young daughter has the book If You Lived When There Was Slavery In America. It's a children's book that tries to explain the history of American slavery. On page 7, it says, "Most White people in the South wanted to keep there slaves. This was one of the reasons for the terrible war between the Northern states and the Southern states known as the Civil War."

Of, course, this is not the first time I have heard reference to "other reasons." I think there is only one, that is, slavery, with its ties to politics, race and economics. I believe had there been no slavery as we know it in the history of the United States, there would have been no war. I can't see any other reason that would produce 4 years of fighting and 620,000 (and some say 750,000) deaths.
 
Hello, Bryan.

I sincerely hope I am not kicking a hornets' nest of opposing opinion when I respond in this manner. First of all, let me say that I agree that slavery was the CENTRAL issue of the war. I think it probably trumped all other issues. But I don't believe it was the only issue. The country was relatively young then. The independent colonies had become a federation of independent states and it took many years before the constitution binding all of our states together was ratified. Realize that there were people alive during the Civil War who could remember when we ratified ourselves into a unified republic. I believe many citizens were still wary and distrustful of a centralized government that would begin to "step" on the rights of their individual states (and I'm not claiming a right or a wrong for the way the various states perceived their rights--only that I believe this was their fear). You might be correct in your assertion that, had their been no slavery, there would have been no war. We can only ponder and surmise. However, there was PLENTY of distrust of big, centralized government then--much more then than now, I think. Any over-stepping move on the part of central government might have triggered a fragmentation of the various states. But, as I think we agree, abolishing slavery became the central issue.

So, I'm not really arguing against your point of slavery being the central and main issue leading up to several states declaring their independence from the USA. I'm only arguing with your assertion that it was the only issue. It sounds to me like your daughter's textbook is actually one that doesn't try to revise history in the process of teaching it.
 
My young daughter has the book If You Lived When There Was Slavery In America. It's a children's book that tries to explain the history of American slavery. On page 7, it says, "Most White people in the South wanted to keep there slaves. This was one of the reasons for the terrible war between the Northern states and the Southern states known as the Civil War."

Of, course, this is not the first time I have heard reference to "other reasons." I think there is only one, that is, slavery, with its ties to politics, race and economics. I believe had there been no slavery as we know it in the history of the United States, there would have been no war. I can't see any other reason that would produce 4 years of fighting and 620,000 (and some say 750,000) deaths.

I actually don't have a problem with that wording myself. If they had said "one of the causes", I'd question it, but there's a subtle difference between the word "reason" and the word "cause".

From Merriam-Webster:

REASON: a statement or fact that explains why something is the way it is, why someone does, thinks, or says something, or why someone behaves a certain way

CAUSE: something or someone that produces an effect, result, or condition : something or someone that makes something happen or exist

I believe slavery was THE cause of the war, and the MAIN reason for the war. But there were other reasons as well: a lack of clarity in the Constitution as to the legality of secession; a biased and stilted news media; a wide geographic separation between regions of the country; divided loyalties between nation and state; a glorification of war and rebellion; a restless and bored young generation; etc.
 
It's not worded very well. Certainly there were other issues between north and south, but slavery was the fundamental one without which there would not have been secession or war - as stated by the people who knew best, the secessionists themselves.

The citation gives the impression that "most White people in the South" owned slaves - you have to own them in order to want to keep them - which of course is not true. Sloppy writing at best, if not sloppy scholarship.
 
Hello, Bryan.

I sincerely hope I am not kicking a hornets' nest of opposing opinion when I respond in this manner. First of all, let me say that I agree that slavery was the CENTRAL issue of the war. I think it probably trumped all other issues. But I don't believe it was the only issue. The country was relatively young then. The independent colonies had become a federation of independent states and it took many years before the constitution binding all of our states together was ratified. Realize that there were people alive during the Civil War who could remember when we ratified ourselves into a unified republic. I believe many citizens were still wary and distrustful of a centralized government that would begin to "step" on the rights of their individual states (and I'm not claiming a right or a wrong for the way the various states perceived their rights--only that I believe this was their fear). You might be correct in your assertion that, had their been no slavery, there would have been no war. We can only ponder and surmise. However, there was PLENTY of distrust of big, centralized government then--much more then than now, I think. Any over-stepping move on the part of central government might have triggered a fragmentation of the various states. But, as I think we agree, abolishing slavery became the central issue.

So, I'm not really arguing against your point of slavery being the central and main issue leading up to several states declaring their independence from the USA. I'm only arguing with your assertion that it was the only issue. It sounds to me like your daughter's textbook is actually one that doesn't try to revise history in the process of teaching it.
No hornet's nest here. I believe that this is a reasonable analysis. I differ with you in that I don't think ANY federal government move would have triggered a fragmentation. Slavery was the elephant in the room from the time of the Declaration of Independence. The issue was swept under the rug by the Founding Fathers and it festered until the Civil War when it became almost inevitable. The CAUSE of the Civil War was SLAVERY with the economic and social ramifications that went with it.
 
Hello, Bryan.

I sincerely hope I am not kicking a hornets' nest of opposing opinion when I respond in this manner. First of all, let me say that I agree that slavery was the CENTRAL issue of the war. I think it probably trumped all other issues. But I don't believe it was the only issue. The country was relatively young then. The independent colonies had become a federation of independent states and it took many years before the constitution binding all of our states together was ratified. Realize that there were people alive during the Civil War who could remember when we ratified ourselves into a unified republic. I believe many citizens were still wary and distrustful of a centralized government that would begin to "step" on the rights of their individual states (and I'm not claiming a right or a wrong for the way the various states perceived their rights--only that I believe this was their fear). You might be correct in your assertion that, had their been no slavery, there would have been no war. We can only ponder and surmise. However, there was PLENTY of distrust of big, centralized government then--much more then than now, I think. Any over-stepping move on the part of central government might have triggered a fragmentation of the various states. But, as I think we agree, abolishing slavery became the central issue.

So, I'm not really arguing against your point of slavery being the central and main issue leading up to several states declaring their independence from the USA. I'm only arguing with your assertion that it was the only issue. It sounds to me like your daughter's textbook is actually one that doesn't try to revise history in the process of teaching it.

One has to wonder then, if there was such a distrust of central government, why would one be created at all.

And if there were other issues (I still don't think there were), the book doesn't explain what those issues were.
 
I actually don't have a problem with that wording myself. If they had said "one of the causes", I'd question it, but there's a subtle difference between the word "reason" and the word "cause".

I believe slavery was THE cause of the war, and the MAIN reason for the war. But there were other reasons as well: a lack of clarity in the Constitution as to the legality of secession; a biased and stilted news media; a wide geographic separation between regions of the country; divided loyalties between nation and state; a glorification of war and rebellion; a restless and bored young generation; etc.

Difference between "reason" and "cause" may be hairsplitting. I can ask, "What caused you to do this?" or "For what reason did you do this?" And I'm basically asking the same question. And honestly, brass napoleon, your answer, while very good, supports the hairsplitting I'm talking about. You call slavery both a reason and a cause.
 
One has to wonder then, if there was such a distrust of central government, why would one be created at all.

And if there were other issues (I still don't think there were), the book doesn't explain what those issues were.
Good grief, you realize the book is geared towards children under 10, right? At that age the study of American history is rudimentary at best if they had it at all. There is ample time to study the causes (or reasons) for the war when they actual get to that point. Getting bent out of shape for the wording of a primary-aged supplemental book seems to be a little over the top.

But here is the bottom line, if you don't like what is in the book tell your daughter you don't agree with it and explain why. That's just part of parenting.
 
Good grief, you realize the book is geared towards children under 10, right? At that age the study of American history is rudimentary at best if they had it at all. There is ample time to study the causes (or reasons) for the war when they actual get to that point. Getting bent out of shape for the wording of a primary-aged supplemental book seems to be a little over the top.

But here is the bottom line, if you don't like what is in the book tell your daughter you don't agree with it and explain why. That's just part of parenting.

And part of discussing this with you online is you being civil and polite. Please don't be condescending. Besides that, I told her what I thought, thank you very much.

I know who that book is for. I also know this forum exists for people (adults, all well over 10 years old) who debate history over and over again. I started this thread because people- including some on this board- keep saying other stuff besides slavery caused the war. I'm just wondering what they believe those causes to be because I don't see any other cause besides slavery. Other things (lack of clarity in the Constitution on secession; regionalism, etc) gave this cause the ability to become secession and rebellion.
 
One has to wonder then, if there was such a distrust of central government, why would one be created at all.



Bryan, that's a very good question to ponder. The individual states were united as a confederation of independent, sovereign states until 1789. Even after we started "doing business" under the US constitution, the document wasn't fully ratified until 1791. I just don't believe acceptance came easily to some of those states and I believe they were wary of losing their sovereignty. But I'll admit I am about the farthest thing from a constitutional scholar that you could find!
 
I just accidentally embedded a reply in the body of a quote from one of Bryan's posts, which shows that I'm sometimes techno-challenged in addition to not being a constitutional scholar. Sorry about all that.
 
And part of discussing this with you online is you being civil and polite. Please don't be condescending. Besides that, I told her what I thought, thank you very much.

I know who that book is for. I also know this forum exists for people (adults, all well over 10 years old) who debate history over and over again. I started this thread because people- including some on this board- keep saying other stuff besides slavery caused the war. I'm just wondering what they believe those causes to be because I don't see any other cause besides slavery. Other things (lack of clarity in the Constitution on secession; regionalism, etc) gave this cause the ability to become secession and rebellion.
Wasn't meant to be condescending and I'm glad you talked with your daughter. But you're not going to find in-depth discussion of causes or reasoning in primary-aged books. So if you're seeking a laundry list of reasons/causes (whatever you want to identify them as) in a book of that type, you're not going to find them. This relates to the discussion on historical fiction...you have to understand the audience the book is meant for.
 
My young daughter has the book If You Lived When There Was Slavery In America. It's a children's book that tries to explain the history of American slavery. On page 7, it says, "Most White people in the South wanted to keep there slaves. This was one of the reasons for the terrible war between the Northern states and the Southern states known as the Civil War."

Of, course, this is not the first time I have heard reference to "other reasons." I think there is only one, that is, slavery, with its ties to politics, race and economics. I believe had there been no slavery as we know it in the history of the United States, there would have been no war. I can't see any other reason that would produce 4 years of fighting and 620,000 (and some say 750,000) deaths.

Leave slavery and take away every other reason you care to name and the South still rebels. Take away slavery and leave every other reason you care to name and the South does not. Simple as that.
 
The target audience for those books is kids ages 7 to 10. This is a hard subject that does not lend itself to the sort of broad, sweeping ideas that second-, third- and fourth-graders will get. The exact wording might be massaged a little, but it's not wrong.
 
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Wasn't meant to be condescending and I'm glad you talked with your daughter. But you're not going to find in-depth discussion of causes or reasoning in primary-aged books. So if you're seeking a laundry list of reasons/causes (whatever you want to identify them as) in a book of that type, you're not going to find them. This relates to the discussion on historical fiction...you have to understand the audience the book is meant for.

Huskerblitz, and Andy as well,
Perhaps I'm not making myself clear. I'm not trying to get in-depth discussion from a children's book. My point is that I saw this narrative in a children's book that I have seen in other places. I didn't need this book to hear the argument that "slavery was just one of the cuases of the Civil War." I see this on civilwartalk.com all the time. And that's why I started this discussion.
 
Huskerblitz, and Andy as well,
Perhaps I'm not making myself clear. I'm not trying to get in-depth discussion from a children's book. My point is that I saw this narrative in a children's book that I have seen in other places. I didn't need this book to hear the argument that "slavery was just one of the cuases of the Civil War." I see this on civilwartalk.com all the time. And that's why I started this discussion.
I believe a simple answer to your query is because you see it here all the time. That means others feel there were indeed other reasons for the war. You may not agree. The book and its wording is acknowledging that fact. The topic of whether this or that is a cause or a reason (the hairsplitting you alluded to) is not clear cut as you feel it may be. The amount of vitriol shown on this forum is testament to that. At least that's my take.
 
I may be a little late to your post but what the heck you're absolutely right if you're like me try to remember the last time someone said that to you.. And it seems your child is getting a up on average education compared to what some other high school books say.
 
If I was to write a schoool book I would properly also find some way of saying that slavery was the main reason, but that there was also others... Less risk of people complaining.
 
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