need help identifying an artifact

mgwech

Cadet
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Location
pennsylvania
I was recently given a leather bag from the civil war. It is believed to have been used by my 3 times great uncles' grandfather. I do have pictures I can forward if requested.
It measures about 12 inches high, 14 inches across, and 4 inches wide at te bottom. It tapers up to basically nothing at the top. There are 2 straps left, one on each side at the front. The center strap is missing. It looks like the center strap may have gone around the back and attached there as well, there are holes in the back, but the item that belongs there is no longer attached.
It does not have the brass plate with the US logo on it on the front, rather it has the US logo embossed into the front of the flap. This flap goes almost to the bottom of the bag in the front. I have attached one view of the item I have.

Any information on exactly what this is, or where I can find more information would be great. I have checked with the national archives, smithsonian, state and federal civil war records, I typed in every variation I could think of in both the yahoo and google search engines, to try to find photos to match it and the closest I have come is a confederate officers document satchel is almost identical to what I have.
 

Attachments

  • Picture 009.jpg
    Picture 009.jpg
    93.6 KB · Views: 446
I was recently given a leather bag from the civil war. It is believed to have been used by my 3 times great uncles' grandfather. I do have pictures I can forward if requested.
It measures about 12 inches high, 14 inches across, and 4 inches wide at te bottom. It tapers up to basically nothing at the top. There are 2 straps left, one on each side at the front. The center strap is missing. It looks like the center strap may have gone around the back and attached there as well, there are holes in the back, but the item that belongs there is no longer attached.
It does not have the brass plate with the US logo on it on the front, rather it has the US logo embossed into the front of the flap. This flap goes almost to the bottom of the bag in the front. I have attached one view of the item I have.

Any information on exactly what this is, or where I can find more information would be great. I have checked with the national archives, smithsonian, state and federal civil war records, I typed in every variation I could think of in both the yahoo and google search engines, to try to find photos to match it and the closest I have come is a confederate officers document satchel is almost identical to what I have.

I suggest you contact C & D Jarnagin's sutlery down in Corinth, Mississippi. They have a website. Those folks should be able to identify this magnificent bag.

E-mail =
[email protected]
 
Looks like an 'Orders/Document' Bag to me --

Like a shoulder strap, hung off to the side.

U. S. Quartermaster's Department may have an idea where one can be given the statistics on the bag.

U.S. Army Quartermaster Museum - Fort Lee, Virginia
Since 1957 the Quartermaster Museum has preserved the history and heritage of the U.S. Army Quartermaster Corps, the Army's oldest logistic branch. ...

www.qmmuseum.lee.army.mil/ - 11k - Similar

The Museum of the Confederacy:
Military, political and domestic artifacts and art associated with the period of the Confederacy, 1861-1865. Richmond, Virginia.

www.moc.org/ - 17k - Similar

Museum of the Confederacy may also have an idea of how to measure and see if your bag is one in the same used.

M. E. Wolf
 
How can you tell? It is hard to tell for sure where I should start looking. I was going by the Civil War belt buckle I have to determine what war it came from.
 
I just received an email from the GAR museum in Philadelphia, Pa. They believe it is Army issue, Most likely Civil War, perhaps very early post war. The person I talked too seems to think it is a Calvary saddle bag?? Does this make sense to anyone? Here is an additional view of my bag.
 

Attachments

  • Picture 012.jpg
    Picture 012.jpg
    92.3 KB · Views: 383
It is definitely a prototype Gucci shoulder bag.

mgwech: What is this Civil War buckle? It has one? Consider that the buckles might have been surplus used just because they were stockpiled and paid for. Agree with 101, it is not a saddle-bag. Apart from that, and not knowing what a dispatch-bag looks like, it looks like a dispatch-bag.

Ole
 
How can you tell? It is hard to tell for sure where I should start looking. I was going by the Civil War belt buckle I have to determine what war it came from.
You mean the oval "US" symbol on the flap looks like the US belt buckle? It does. I have no idea what that indicates, but it looks just like the belt buckle.

It isn't a saddle bag, though, because there are no rings or straps or anything by which to attach it to a saddle.
 
First, I want to clarify the buckle part, The belt buckle is a different item, unattached this one. The buckle is something I found years ago, I couldn't even tell you where.
Second, I just received an email from the QuarterMasters Museum. A man by the name of Luther Hanson from the museum seems to think this is a "MODEL 1904 MUSETTE BAG" This was used from the end of the Civil War through WW1, until the 1920 version came out.
So, I now have more questions. 1. What is a musette bag? 2. How can I properly preserve, (I don't want to alter or change it), the leather? (It is over 100 years old now). 3. How can I establish value? I think we would rather sell this than keep it, the family history isn't really that strong.

I really do appreciate all of the information this site has provided.
 
Google says a musette bag is an officer's haversack.

Are you sure that the model #1904 does not refer to the year they began to be made? I ask because you said the next model came out post-WW1 and its number was 1920.
 
I am not sure about the model 1904 part. I will quote the email I received from the QuarterMasters Museum. It seems slightly confusing to me.
Here goes:
"...I believe it is a Model 1904 Musette bag used trough WW1 till the 1920 version comes out. It would have to be black leather to be Civil War. Everything changed to brown in 1902. Hope this will help..."
 
Well, it's brown, isn't it? Sounds like it dates from 1902 to 1920.

EDIT: Upon rereading that, I think he's saying there was some other model that was used from the Civil War through 1904, and during most of that time it was black but changed to brown in 1902. Then in 1904 they came out with a new model, which continued in the brown color. So your bag is the 1904-1920 model.
 
Google is wrong... "musette" bags were carried during WW2 by enlisted also.

Model 1904 would indicate the year excepted for use by the Army.

Google says a musette bag is an officer's haversack.

Are you sure that the model #1904 does not refer to the year they began to be made? I ask because you said the next model came out post-WW1 and its number was 1920.
 
The quote sounds correct.

I am not sure about the model 1904 part. I will quote the email I received from the QuarterMasters Museum. It seems slightly confusing to me.
Here goes:
"...I believe it is a Model 1904 Musette bag used trough WW1 till the 1920 version comes out. It would have to be black leather to be Civil War. Everything changed to brown in 1902. Hope this will help..."
 
Good call...

...on contacting Luther Hanson. He is an incredible guy; knowledgeable, friendly, and always willing to lend a helping hand. Not to mention that he is energetic 24/7 but always makes time to do things like identifying items like yours!
Well done.

John Marler
Franklin, TN
 
Ok, so this latest information means that it is definately made between 1904 and 1920? The only way to tell for sure when it was made, would be to find out who in the family served before or in WW 1. The only action between the Civil War and WW 1 was the Spanish American War and the Philliphine American War. Since these were short conflicts, I doubt that the call up was that large. It was given to me from my uncle who got it from his great uncle, who supposedly got it from his father. However, being that the passing of this item has crossed from one family to another, what compnay or organization would be the best to contact to establish authenticity and value?
 
Back
Top