National Archives - goodbye to the thrill of holding history?

MajGenl.Meade

Sergeant Major
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Location
Kent, Ohio
I believe someone else here recently posted a comment about the planned withdrawal of files by the National Archives. There is coming a time, and it is now here, when it will no longer be possible to visit and handle military and pension files - or order copies via the mails.

I am just returned from four days in the Research Room and found (what I was not looking for) that West Virginia Union military files are not available for pull any more. You either look at the (rather awful) microfilm or you go to fold3 (using the NARA access computers, free of charge).

Not only that, but I could not pull Massachusetts CMSRs because "Massachusetts is now closed" because the files are out of the archive and undergoing digitization - to become available on fold3. The same thing held for two different series of Pension Files - closed for digitization. It was disappointing that I couldn't see some of the things I travelled there to view.

Staff confirmed that this means, as with the WVa records, that those digitized materials will no longer be available for pulls and handling at NARA. Eventually, all will be closed and available only as digital versions on fold3.

I'm of two minds about this. On the one hand, making all military and pension files accessible on-line will enable people all over the world to research and document their family/interests. It will no longer be essential to travel to Washington DC to find those kinds of data - indeed, I've been happy over the past year to be able to find complete records at fold3.

On the other hand.... fold3 is a paid service, not free. Although perhaps some local (USA) libraries may offer free access via Ancestry.com. There's something a little bit unsettling that public records suddenly become even a little bit "private". Then again, the casual searcher probably can sign up for the "free trial" access at fold3 - locate the file(s) they want - then cancel the membership before the trial period ends.

But the most unsettling aspect is that the records will no longer be available to hold - history in the (gentle) hand. And everyone knows what happened to many vital records back in the first half of the 20th century - they were transferred to the technological marvel of microfilm and the physical papers were discarded. Is that to be the fate of military and pension files arising from the war of 1861-1865?

Any thoughts on the moves that NARA is making?
 
My thoughts on this are not printable in a family forum and will run afoul of the rules against modern politics.

Privatizing American history? Grrrr......
 
Blame it on the Union, they won.....................lol............Just kidding guys and gals.


U.S. Half Mast.jpg

Respectfully,
William
 
In short, I'm not comfortable with that. What is the reason given for the change ? What will they do with the originals ?
Very likely the originals will be catalogued, boxed, palleted, and stored in a climate-controlled warehouse.

I see it as more of a preservation thing than making money. Although the income thingy might have had something to do with the decision.
 
Could be so, ole. I think perhaps they might save space for more animatronic presentations of history for the kiddies. But perhaps it's more charitable to look on the wider availability of data as the motivator

The rules according to NARA grant proposals are that there shouldn't be any cost to see digitized public records. But I don't see how that can be

As the gentleman says on this video, the original papers can be take out of circulation and that will preserve them

 
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I have zero problem with this. As a matter of a fact an annual subscription to fold3 costs me less than even an overnight working trip to DC and gets me much more than what I would get in volume then. A total no-brainer.

A fold 3 membership is $80 a year for unlimited access. Please let me know an $80 a night hotel you would like to stay overnight in DC, for example.

Now, I'd love to see the Confederate side do the same with some of the stuff they have in Richmond, especially letters...
 
I'm not thrilled with this idea, either, but I do see another reason for doing it. Things disappear. Somehow, some way, somebody can pick up something that's supposed to stay there forever so other researchers can examine it. We had a very sad thing happen to us some years ago when a so-called 'researcher' stole a goodly number of important documents regarding tribal history and family records. They're gone for good, we know not where!
 
My understanding is that the National Archives sees the digitization project by Fold3 as a matter of preservation. Ancestry.com, which I believe owns Fold3, conducts the scanning, thereby taking on the time and cost commitment for such a large undertaking--something the National Archives could not accomplish alone.

Once the particular record group is scanned, the records can be removed from regular circulation and better preserved. Ancestry/Fold3 has cornered the market, so to speak, but that company has also put taken the financial burden of scanning them in the first place.
 
I have mixed feelings. I have to admit that as much as I appreciate the access to original documents, it always concerns me that they are so easily accessible, especially when some of them are so fragile that they could easily be compromised. I always try to work with microform or digital copies first if they're available, but then I've also seen some really bad copies that were just plain illegible, and had to resort to the originals anyway.

I like the idea of making them available digitally, but I would also like to see some way that the originals could still be available in a pinch. But whatever the case, they shouldn't withdraw the originals until AFTER they've been digitized, and they absolutely should not destroy them!
 
I can see scanning so as to eliminate wear and tear or potential loss of the originals but turning it all over to a private company does not sit well with me. That's privatizing our national heritage. So what if they put up the money ? Now they own the images and we've just sold access to them. Want to see government-owned documents ? You'll just have to pay Ancestry.

I just don't like it on principal that we shouldn't privatize what we own collectively. I saw very similar arguments in my career in natural resources management saying we should turn things over to private companies and let them charge people. As an example of that mindset for a time one actually had to pay a parking fee to park a vehicle at a federal trail head. Isn't that what taxes are for ?
 
I can see scanning so as to eliminate wear and tear or potential loss of the originals but turning it all over to a private company does not sit well with me. That's privatizing our national heritage. So what if they put up the money ? Now they own the images and we've just sold access to them. Want to see government-owned documents ? You'll just have to pay Ancestry.

Technically, you have the same access to the information on the documents as before.

Additionally, by paying a subscription fee, you can view them at home as well.
 
I can see scanning so as to eliminate wear and tear or potential loss of the originals but turning it all over to a private company does not sit well with me. That's privatizing our national heritage. So what if they put up the money ? Now they own the images and we've just sold access to them. Want to see government-owned documents ? You'll just have to pay Ancestry.

I just don't like it on principal that we shouldn't privatize what we own collectively. I saw very similar arguments in my career in natural resources management saying we should turn things over to private companies and let them charge people. As an example of that mindset for a time one actually had to pay a parking fee to park a vehicle at a federal trail head. Isn't that what taxes are for ?

The thing is that I trust private corporations more than the Government in these situations.

And, why would you have to pay an entry fee for a museum that the NPS runs in a public land? Taxes should be enough to let everyone for free in any museum in NPS land, according to that logic. But they are not.
 
I went to a local university library for some newspaper research via microfilm. The issue in question was not available on film and I was able to ask for the "retired" copies. If the microfilm is bad and the original offers the answer I think a request to the archivists for the original is reasonable. They understand the value of the primary evidence. Let's see if that happens.
 
I'm all for digitization and it's true that Fold3 is a cheap annual option - much cheaper than Ancestry.com... hmmm...

The point about loss of documents is well-found. I was in the General Lyon file Sept 18 and again October 19... and one page that I'd photographed on 9/18 is no longer there. I reported it of course. Also it is obvious that something that should have been there - the Manifest of Passengers sent by Genl. Stone (his cover letter is there) - is not there. I reported that too, with the comment that (a) I didn't want to be blamed for any of it and (b) it probably was no real use to worry about it - they're gone
 
I'm not cool with this, because sometimes whole runs of scans are done badly and unreadable. Sometimes you MUST go to the original.

As it stands, if some guy scanning thousands of pages skips one, it will never be seen again.

In addition, those records belong to us, not to Ancestry, and there should always be an alternative for viewing them without paying a private company. Ancestry recently changed both fold3 and Ancestry's viewers to make them more annoying. Despite huge amounts of negative feedback, they have no intention of fixing the issues. What's to stop the company from screwing up everybody's access completely? The company was sold not too long ago. There is no guarantee of any standard.
 
Incidentally it was bought by a European country. So Europe is now in charge of how Americans access American history.

That statement is the poster boy of a platitude :wink:

*most of the American grocery stores are owned by European companies, so Europe is now in charge of how Americans eat.
 
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