Mod 1861 .58 Musket

Anyone have UNFIRED Original Musket -- Muskets ???

  • MAKER of MUSKET

    Votes: 1 100.0%
  • HISTORY of MUSKET

    Votes: 1 100.0%

  • Total voters
    1
  • Poll closed .
What ever it is, somebody put a lot of work into it! I would rather doubt Bannerman had anything to do with it. Having studied their catalogs years ago, the business was more oriented in creating fantasy arms by shortening long arms, rather than dressing up existing arms. Regarding the one we are shown in the photo, I wonder if the butt plate and bands are brass plated original iron parts?
J.
 
What ever it is, somebody put a lot of work into it! I would rather doubt Bannerman had anything to do with it. Having studied their catalogs years ago, the business was more oriented in creating fantasy arms by shortening long arms, rather than dressing up existing arms. Regarding the one we are shown in the photo, I wonder if the butt plate and bands are brass plated original iron parts?
J.
It's similar to a bannerman m1864 w/ a 1855 patch box I've seen but in considerably better condition. Neat little critter regardless.
 
That story is wrong. The CS never traded or sold arms abroad. However large numbers of US made arms were sold to France prior to the Franco Prussian War.
I have to agree with Johan on this, why would the Confederacy trade a case of much needed, in 1864 no less, rifled muskets? What could they possibly need more than arms?
 
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Surplus musket as most 1864 dated muskets are; I have a beautiful 1864 dated Colt unfired. Just about all contracts were honored back then, even though not needed. Many of these muskets were sold to other countries after the war. Unfortunately the chance of the Confederates capturing a case of 1864 muskets is very slim, for a couple of reasons. Very few 1864 muskets were issued and the Confederacy in 1864 was in a very defensive posture, they were not capturing much. Muskets would not have been traded; they needed the muskets more than they needed anything else, except maybe shoes.
 
This is a TRENTON of mine that still has the fine scratch marks in the bore from the rifling process . Old grease on it in before washing and the patina left after . Hoppes and a SOFT rag only and nothing done to the stock .
 

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This is a TRENTON of mine that still has the fine scratch marks in the bore from the rifling process . Old grease on it in before washing and the patina left after . Hoppes and a SOFT rag only and nothing done to the stock .
That's a beautiful piece and interesting to note the transition from '63 on the barrel to '64 on the lock, denoting the possibility of an early '64 manufacture.
 
New Jersey had quite a few Trenton muskets still in unfired condition at the end of the ACW. This is, because as I understand it, the State of New Jersey did not permit state owned arms to leave the state. The logic being such that they were for the defense of the State, and not the Nation. I believe the Trenton Contract shown is one of these arms.
J.
 
Jobe , This has been posted here before and the same opinion was voiced then . The hard evidence as I recall is the NJ on the stock . No other cartouches . It has normal proofs on the barrel and NJ . The history of this one definitely has no being issued in it .
 
Although I don't quite understand what you mean by "The history of this one definitely has no being issued in it ." The "N.J" on the barrel is also proper for how New Jersey marked their State owned arms.
J.
 
As a brat kid in the 1950's.."we" spent a lot of time digging old FORT RICHMOND. Piles of Muskets were found buried - each and every one of them were damaged. BADLY. Washington went through the Richmondtown area as he headed for his ride across the Delaware from NJ.. There had been a meeting there in Richmondtown w/Washington and other big shots.
A family on the hill there - had been there generation after generation since that day... Artifacts were still in the home - until the last of the family had hung herself in the stairway from the second floor.. All the home and possessions were taken down to Richmond town... Moving the home was a nightmare.
BANNERMAN'S was a treasure trove of Civil War items.. Francis spent his life with CW items for sure.. His son Jimmy and I were good friends. Jimmy had a disability and could not walk well. I helped him out a lot in the Summers. My family was in Greenwich Village. I lived on Staten island and spent Summer in the Village. Was fun.. Hudson Sporting Goods - down by the Bowery was another treasure trove of CW items. As a kid I bought a lot of it ! Was pennies back then. I still have cartridge boxes and Cap boxes from that time..Original metal boxes with minnie balls still in there..
During my 24 years in the US Military - retiring as SERGEANT MAJOR, I learned to never take too seriously what others say ---about "anything" ..unless they "were" there. Books ...are a good resource - but again..a lot of it is assumptions.
I had access to actual Government Records and used them frequently for ID of WW1 and WW2 items. Occasionally for CW items .. I spent most of my time with the sneaky shooters..... building MATCH and SNIPER Rifles for the NAVY and USMC ..and later for the US ARMY.. Sorry...but I have had "hands on " experience -- and am very hard headed - as required by ARMY REGS :smile: Being a SGM was no task for the weak minded... especially in a ghillie suit....
Later............
Taking a 93 year old retired NYC Detective on what may be his last Hunting trip.....
Be back on Monday -- this is Saturday...

DARN it....put the pics of the wrong Flintlock in...I'll dig out the correct pics.. Grandson is 14 - and too quick on the draw..

My grandson did not goof..he took the pics of the Flintlock I told him to - but it is the 1839 SPRINGFIELD..... The Harpers Ferry is in my son's house - over his fireplace... :-(

Frank - the 93 year old - cancelled out. He said he did not feel up to it. He is a WW2 NAVY Veteran - from Brooklyn, NY. He looked pretty weak when he was here Yesterday... Worries me.
I am fascinated that you spent time at Bannerman's store in NYC. When did it shut down, and what was it like to be in there? I wish I could have been alive to see it back then, I have two artifacts from Bannerman's museum, one still has the original bill of sale...
 
FIRST...in my USS PRAIRIE Rifle safe for teh M1 Garands.....in the corner... I found 4 -- 1862 US Musket RAMRODS !!!!
Geeeezzzz...

2nd...
BANNERMANS..... In 1956 I went US NAVY....1960 came home -- worked in NYC...stopped by BANNERMANS a lot to talk with JIMMY..He was Francis Bannermans son... Jimmy was /had physical problems and could barely walk. I helped him a bit w2hen I could.. Coming in the front door...was a beautiful stairway -- like in GONE WITH THE WIND...On each level were sort of "mannequins"...in full dress suits of ARMOR -- with spears - chainmail - swords...all ORIGINAL items from the 14-15 hundreds...BEAUTIFUL !!! Jimmy once told me ---"take one home"...hmmm... Wish of course now -- that I would have.. Every room in that old building was stacked with Civil War and Indian War items....parts -- pieces everywhere...
Uniform parts and pieces - hats...saddles...was a treasure trove... I got married in 61 -- moved to MAINE in ?? 63 ...shame -- was not there when it went "CLOSED"... I was told most of it went to trash when he closed and then he set up on ??? Long Island I think -- and sold from his home whatever small stuff he managed to hang onto..
Worse yet...... CUNARD Lines -- owner of TITANIC -- shut down their building in the Bowery NYC..?? in 1961-2 ??
Gail Curren -- a friend of mine at the time , was a secretary in the Building at the time.. In the huge LOBBY were HUGE Ship and Tugboat - extremely detailed Models.. TITANIC was in the center of the LOBBY.. Gail told me I could have it... About 14 feet long......everything you could imagine on the deck of the real ship -- was on that model... But - realistically -- how could I move it..?? It was broken up and went into the dumpster.. :-(
 
This is a TRENTON of mine that still has the fine scratch marks in the bore from the rifling process . Old grease on it in before washing and the patina left after . Hoppes and a SOFT rag only and nothing done to the stock .
I know they are apples and oranges, but with my mosin nagant, I had success getting cosmoline out of the stock by using a hair dryer to heat up the wood for about 10 seconds, the wiping the oil off with a rag. as the wood heated up, the cosmoline would just rise the the surface and start to puddle. It took a lot of the dark stains out, and caused zero damage.
 
Some very nice firearms. Interesting info on Banerman's. Not doubting anyone's integrity, but the Confederacy need for arms would have prevailed over other supply needs.
Logic makes me think that the only trade good that the CS exported was cotton. Cotton was exported, and war materials were imported.

Sometimes, when facts and sources are not readily available, logic must be utilized. The South was in great need of rifles. France was not. Rifles, shoes, uniforms, lead, gunpowder, percussion caps, food (nasau bacon & herring), medical supplies, etc... these things were all bought for cheap abroad and then ran thru the blockade and traded for cotton.
Why on Earth would a blockade runner trade his wares for guns that would be considered obsolete in France? France was converting their muzzle loaders into breech loaders in 1864 (Tabatière rifle), and were already working on the Chassepot rifle. Any American musket in 1864 would have been considered junk in England, France, or Germany. Would you have loaded up you blockade runner with rifles you couldn't sell, or cotton, which was the hottest commodity in the in France, and was also stacked up at the Southern loading docks, rotting away while awaiting shipment?

It makes zero sense. This is like the USA buying Lee Enfields and Bren Guns from England in 1940... Wouldn't happen... Weapons were going from the US to the Allies, not the other way around.
 
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