1. Welcome to the CivilWarTalk, a forum for questions and discussions about the American Civil War! Become a member today for full access to all of our resources, it's fast, simple, and absolutely free! If you aren't ready for that, try posting your question or comment as a guest!
  2. The Civil War from A to Z "Quick Links" -- Return to INDEX
    A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z #
    Nicknames - Quotations - Horses - Medical - Naval - Modern - On the Web

"Matthew", "Mark", "Luke", and "John"

Discussion in 'Nicknames of the Civil War' started by donna, Feb 22, 2012.

  1. donna

    donna Lt. Colonel Forum Host

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    11,786
    Location:
    Kentucky
    "Matthew", "Mark", "Luke", and "John" The names given to four of his cannons by Confederate Brigadier General William Nelson Pendleton, who was an Episcopalian minister. He continued to preach during the war while holding the post of Chief of the Artillery of the Army.

    from "The Language of The civil War" p.188
     
    Glorybound likes this.

  2. (Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)
  3. prroh

    prroh Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,573
    Location:
    Maryland
    They were also the names of rebel cannons in The Horse Soldiers. Did your book give a source? Wonder if this "fact" inspired the movie name or vice versa.
     
  4. donna

    donna Lt. Colonel Forum Host

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    11,786
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Only thing I found was that in movie Gods and Generals there was a scene between Pendleton and Stonewall Jackson regarding Pendleton's son Alexander Swift "Sandie" Pendleton who was present. During the scene, Pendleton informed Jackson of the naming the howitzers Matthew, Mark, Luke and John; to which, Jackson replied "I'm sure your men will spread the gospel wherever they encounter the enemy". Does anyone know if Pendleton and Jackson really discussed this?

    This from wikipedia on William N. Pendleton

    It is interesting that Pendleton's classmates at West Point were Joseph E. Johnston, Robert E. Lee, and John B. Magruder ( who was his roomate) and Jefferson Davis.

    Sandie Pendleton was his only son. He was killed at the Third Battle of Winchester. Pendleton's daughter Susan married future Confederate General Edwin G. Lee. A lot of families were connected.
     
  5. kholland

    kholland Brigadier General Moderator Trivia Game Winner Forum Host

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Messages:
    4,010
    Location:
    Howard County, Maryland
    I
    I have always heard this so I googled it and came up with this info on Wikipedia, The Encyclopedia Virgina website, History net, and others including our own Civil War Wiki.net at:

    http://civilwarwiki.net/wiki/The_Four_Apostles

    So I guess this inspired the movie name.
     
  6. diane

    diane Lt. Colonel Forum Host

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2010
    Messages:
    12,490
    Location:
    State of Jefferson
    They were part of the Rockbridge Artillery - the VMI Cadets - and were the ones under Jackson's command at Bull Run, when Bee gave him his nickname! He was very well acquainted with them as he'd taught artillery with them for years at VMI. The cadets liked to pull a trick on him - they'd loosen a lynch pin in the carriage so that when the cannon fired it would collapse in pieces. They did this routinely - but Jackson never caught on he was being pranked. One day, however, they collapsed the cannon and Jackson stared at it for a long time. "There must be some flaw in the manufacture of those lynch pins," he finally concluded!
     
  7. Delhi Rangers

    Delhi Rangers First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,110
    Location:
    Alabama
    Aren't those the cannons that are in front of the Jackson statue at VMI?
    Gettysburg Trip 233.jpg
     
  8. kholland

    kholland Brigadier General Moderator Trivia Game Winner Forum Host

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2011
    Messages:
    4,010
    Location:
    Howard County, Maryland
    Yes they are.
     
  9. prroh

    prroh Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,573
    Location:
    Maryland
    The site said the guns were called "Four Apostles" no mention of being named Matthew , Mark, Luke and John, who were not all Apostles.
     
  10. donna

    donna Lt. Colonel Forum Host

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    11,786
    Location:
    Kentucky
    The site from wikipedia on Pendleton that I referred to in my second post on this thread said he named them after the "Four Gospel writers" which they were. Matthew and John were original Apostles. Mark and Luke were followers and two of the gospel writers.
     
  11. prroh

    prroh Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,573
    Location:
    Maryland
    But he didn't name each gun is my point. he referred to them collectively. Wikipedia is often inexact. The "Four Apostles" was mentioned in more respected circles.
     
  12. donna

    donna Lt. Colonel Forum Host

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    11,786
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Another reference I found where it states he named them after Matthew, Mark, Luke and John is Encyclopedia Virginia at http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Pendleton_William_Nelson_1808-1883

    It states: "Shortly after Virginia passed its Ordinance of Secession Pendleton was elected on May 1, 1861, to the captaincy of the Rockbridge Artillery, a Lexington based unit composed of four guns that Pendleton aptly named after the early Christian figures Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John."

    This article was contributed by Peter S. Carmichael, the Robert C. Fluhrer Professor of Civil War Stusies and Director of the Civil War Institute at Gettysburg College. There is list of further reading on Pendleton. It would be great to contact Professor Carmichael and find out why he states Pendleton named the guns after Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

    I am sending this as further reference. I am not disagreeing with anyone.
     
    Glorybound likes this.
  13. donna

    donna Lt. Colonel Forum Host

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    11,786
    Location:
    Kentucky
    In further research, I found anther reference to the guns being named after Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. This is also from the Encyclopedia Virginia. It is article on First Rockbridge Artillery which states: "Pendleton, with ecclesiastical
    panache, named the first four tubes of the battery "Matthew", "Mark", "Luke", and "John".

    This article was contributed by Matt Atkinson, a park ranger at Gettysburg National Military Park. There is also a list of further reading.

    The site for this reference is http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/First_Rockbridge_Artillery

    With the lists of further reading in this article and other article, makes one want to get the books to see what all is written.
     
    Glorybound likes this.
  14. prroh

    prroh Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,573
    Location:
    Maryland
    Good, this finally is a reasonable source. Thanks for your effort. I was only trying to demonstrate that such feel good factoids are often basically embroidered stories.
     
    Glorybound likes this.
  15. donna

    donna Lt. Colonel Forum Host

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    11,786
    Location:
    Kentucky
    I know you don't trust things wikipedia prints without further research on subject. I try to find many sources for statements.
     
    Glorybound likes this.
  16. prroh

    prroh Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,573
    Location:
    Maryland
    Sorry, but I approach these feel good stories with lots of skepticism. Too many, in my experience turn out not to be true.

    I thought the often cited claim that the sound of the cannonade at Gettysburg could be heard as far away as Pittsburgh as to trust until I was re-reading McPherson's account of it in Battle Cry of Freedom and noticed that there was no footnote. It seemed to me that Pittsburgh was just to far away, over 150 miles if I remember correctly) When Ed Bearss mentioned the Pittsburgh story on a tour, I asked him for his source and he said McPherson! So another case of a "well known fact". I then sent anyway for microfiche of the Pittsburgh Gazette for July ,1863 and found six references of the cannon fire being heard in towns 40 - 45 miles away, with no mention of being heard in Pittsburgh about four times the distance. Wrightsville, where the telegraph line used for press dispatches was located was mentioned three times. The lack of mention by the local newspaper and the repeated references to nearer towns hearing the gunfire convinced me that the oft-repeated Pittsburgh tale was not true. I told Ed and he repeated my story, telling the folks that he agreed with me.

    BTW, Ed's daughter, Sara Beth, passed away last week, a cancer victim at age 51. She had a distinguished career at the library of Virginia.
     
    Glorybound likes this.
  17. donna

    donna Lt. Colonel Forum Host

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    11,786
    Location:
    Kentucky
    prroh That is fine research you did. It always pays to check things out.

    Sorry to hear about the passing of Ed's daughter. Please extend my best to the family. Cancer is such an awful disease and takes so many wonderful people, both young and old.
     
  18. prroh

    prroh Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,573
    Location:
    Maryland
    Actually, I have heard over 60 guns firing from an observation post about 3 -5 miles away from the batteries. and the sound is like hearing a 4th of July display from the next town. It is hard to imagine the sound enduring over 150 miles. It was my own experience, not a search for truth, that led me to check on what a number of well known historians were saying. But it does pay to check.

    Early diagnosis is the key. I have had three distinct types of cancer and each were detected early enough to successfully treat, although one, Colon Cancer, was a near run thing, discovered by a routine colonoscopy. The lung cancer was detected as part of routine tests that follow a cancer outbreak. Regular checkups would lead to warning signs that further tests are required. I am living proof that cancer can be stopped. "Cured" is not a word that goes with "cancer free".
     
  19. donna

    donna Lt. Colonel Forum Host

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    11,786
    Location:
    Kentucky
    prroh I am happy to hear that you are cancer free. I certainly know what cancer is, as I have had it too. As of now I am cancer free, but still go for all my checkups. Unfortunately, I have many relatives and friends who are not so fortunate. They are in the struggle of a lifetime. I just thank God that I am doing well and pray for them everyday.
     
  20. prroh

    prroh Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2009
    Messages:
    5,573
    Location:
    Maryland
    Glad to hear that you are cancer free. Let this exchange be a hopeful sign that, with preventive care and regular checkups, we caqn stay ahead in the race against cancer. Just two weeks ago, we lost a close College friend to brain cancer, so we know we have a long way to go.
     

(Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)

Share This Page