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Longest Sniper Hit?

Discussion in 'Civil War Weapons and Ammunition' started by elektratig, Apr 17, 2010.

  1. J.A. Morrow

    J.A. Morrow Guest

    Hello Bama,
    Very interesting comments.
    And I had no idea the .45 Glock round never caught on.
    But it is and has been a great favorite with SF indivual soldiers.
    I used to think the old Colt .45 was the best(reliable & knock-down power)all around hand gun,though,for whatever reason,some find it difficult to shoot effectively.
    I have carried my .45 Glock since it made an appearance years ago-as did the majority of my old team mates.
    And like any weapon-it is best if employed for whatever is intended(i.e.pistols are usually fired in a hostile environment from less than three feet range;or "hand-to-hand combat range).
     

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  3. J.A. Morrow

    J.A. Morrow Guest

    A friend of mine owns a piece of property just below the ridge at Pine Mountain where Gen.Polk was killed.
    The Federal commanding officer of the battery that killed Polk was Simonson,and he was killed the next day or very soon after by a Whitworth shot.
    There is even a good possibility that Simonson was killed on my friends piece of land,where Federals entrenched,as he has metal detected several impacted Whitworth rounds in a generally specific area.
    Simonson was reportedly killed as he pushed a log in front of him for cover as to get a better view of the Confederate lines.
    My friend also found a Richmond spur (in his driveway fronting a war time road) and several dozen Federal coat buttons.
     
  4. bama46

    bama46 Captain

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    One of these days, when I grow up, I will learn to check facts before i shoot off my big mouth... er keypad!
    The round I was referring to was the .45GAP... and on checking, it seems that rumors of it's death are premature. While it did get off to a slow start, 5 state law enforcement agencies have adopted it as the standard sidearm caliber. this has apparently given it a new life. What I do not know however is if the pistols are all of Glock manufacturer or if other manufacturers are getting on the bandwagon.
    It would surprise me if a single manufacturer could carry the round all by itself. If S&W, Ruger,Colt, Tarus and some of the others do not chamber a pistol ofr this round, I still think it will remain in relative obscurity.

    the .45 ACP is a great round, but how popular would it be if only Colt manufactured arms for it?
     
  5. Freebooter

    Freebooter Private

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    Bullet that killed Sedgewick was.....

    Hello,
    The question was asked about what sort of bullet killed Gen. Sedgwick, was it saved or what type known, etc.. I might be wrong, but if I remember correctly I remember reading that they took a Whitworth bullet out of his face/head.
    FB
     
  6. Southron Sr.

    Southron Sr. Private

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    Back in the early 1970's I had a little Beretta "Minx" pistol in .22 Short caliber that I wanted to sell. A friend of mine was interested in the little pistol and I just happened to stop by his farm one afternoon for a visit.

    It was December and as luck would have it, we were walking across one of his fields. About 100 yards away, in the center of his field was a very large, lone old Pecan tree. Because it was December, all the leaves were gone.

    I had the little Minx in my pocket as we were walking across the field. Both of us saw a sparrow land on one of the branches in the top of that Pecan tree. My friend (who didn't know that much about guns) asked me IF that little Minx pistol could hit that Sparrow.

    Well, I pulled that Minx out of my pocket, jacked a .22 Short into the chamber and shot in the general direction of the sparrow.

    AMAZINGLY, the Sparrow toppled out of the tree and fell to the ground. (I was dumbfounded, but didn't let on.) We both walked under the tree and my friend, in a state of excitement and absolute AWE picked up the dead bird. There was a bullet hole thru his chest-you might say I made a "Heart Shot."

    Well, both you and I know that that was a very, very "LUCKY SHOT!"

    My friend bought that Beretta Minx from me on the spot and he was convinced that he owned the most accurate pistol in all of Georgia. No, I didn't raise the price of the pistol because he was a friend.

    MORAL OF THE STORY: "Lucky Shots" do occasionally happen. Considering how much ammo was expended during "The Late Unpleasantness Between The States" I am sure that there were some very amazing and very long range hits made.
     
  7. Southron Sr.

    Southron Sr. Private

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    Regarding Adobe Walls-

    Apparently Quanna Parker and the other injun war chiefs really didn't think things out before attacking Adobe Walls. Here are some good reasons they should have forseen NOT TO attack Adobe Walls:

    1. There were a bunch of buffalo hunters there. Never, Never, Never a good idea to attack a bunch of well armed, professional marksmen!

    2. Because Adobe Walls was a "Trading Post & Saloon" combination, the Buffalo hunters and others whites at Adobe Walls had practically an unlimited ammo supply because of the large quantity of ammo carried by in stock by the Trading Post. Never, Never, Never a good idea to attack an foe that has an almost unlimited supply of ammo on hand.

    3. Because of the "Saloon," the defenders of Adobe Walls had a practically unlimited supply of "Group Tightner" and "Dutch Courage" on hand. Never, Never, Never (well you get the idea!)
     
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  8. Freebooter

    Freebooter Private

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    Southron,
    You have some good points there, and funny too! You are quite right with all three points, especially the first too. Dang, attacking an trading post full of professional hunters and marksmen, with a near unlimiited ammo supply with powerful longrange rifles to boot! I never understood why all the others with those big Sharps didn't open up on the crowd of Indians atop that mesa or whatever it was along with Dixon. Can you imagine a volley of those powerful Sharps Rifles hitting amongst the crowd, rather than Dixon's lone shot?
    FB
     
  9. John Gross

    John Gross Private

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    The general theory is that Sedgwick was shot by a Whitworth. However, there is no known physical evidence to confirm this that I am aware of. In the article I wrote about the Whitworth here is my footnote in reference to this.

    John Gross

    "There is no physical evidence that Sedgwick was killed by a Whitworth bullet. I was given some second hand information a few years ago that the Smithsonian Institution had the bullet that killed Sedgwick. However, in correspondence with Mr. David Miller, Associate Curator of Military History and Diplomacy at the Smithsonian, he advised me on August 1, 2008 that they do not have the bullet. He also checked with the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology and the National Museum of Health and Medicine, but neither had the bullet. He concluded by saying that he could not think where else it could be."
     
  10. Freebooter

    Freebooter Private

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    Hello all,
    I was just parusing around google and read an interesting article. It was from someone's statement or diary, etc, from the day and states that every few seconds or minutes they would hear the shrill whine of Whitworth bullets passing very near them. Finally they heard the whine of "incoming" and a very heavy thud sound, and Sedgwick fell forward. I have read of accounts where guys spoke of the Whitworth bullet making its own peculiar, distinctive high pitched whine sound. That is why I suppose they got to saying it was a whitworth that killed him.
    Interesting reading of nothing else.
     
  11. BillO

    BillO Captain

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    My friend we don't seem to disagree on much but on this I will. Shooting iron sights from a rest at a target 500+ yards away is an aimed shot. At better than 500 yards with a half dozen men and horses standing in a group that is a single target to the eye.
     
  12. rpkennedy

    rpkennedy Major

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    It's certainly possible. The Whitworth artillery shells made a distinctive shriek when they passed through the air due to their unusual shape.

    R
     
  13. Freebooter

    Freebooter Private

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    He was talkign of Whitworth Sharpshooter Rifles and their hex bullets whining. I would like to hear one. I would like to stand off to the side of a target a few hundred yards range and listen to it whine and impact!
    FB
     
  14. Smoothbore62

    Smoothbore62 Private

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    As Johan pointed out, there were very,very few Whitworth's or Kerr's ever used. I think that because of the amazing accuracy these weapons displayed, that they became alomost legendary in their own time, and thus got alot more credit than they really deserved, especially the Whithworth. It may well be that almost any hit at long or very long range was attributed to the dreaded Whitworth, when in all probabability it was just a stray minie or a lucky shot from an ordinary rifled musket. Just a thought.

    Bobby Bivins
     
    Burning Billy likes this.
  15. ole

    ole Brev. Brig. Gen'l Retired Moderator

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    I'll suspect that any soldier who spent time on line in any war, could identify the sound of a projectile.

    Remember "Whistling Dick" at V'burg? Distinctive sound; rare tube.

    And I'll suspect that an old timer could distiguish between a minie and a round ball as it whizzed over his head.

    Not much difference than in the old days when I was a greaser. Could hear the sound of a starter and determine the make. Hear the exhaust and could determine the engine and maker. Not dissimilar ability.
     
  16. Freebooter

    Freebooter Private

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    We have probably all read about how they think maybe 250 total were imported. And as far as Whitworth's goes, I have read, not only articles but eyewitness accounts, that say the Whitworth's were given stretched out amongs the troops. One guy said one to each brigade or something like that. And more than one former soldier in his diary, interview, eyewitness account, etc, stated that unlike the sharpshooter units which stayed together and did everthing from Sharpshooting with their enfields to being skirmishers, the Whitworth shooters (unsure if it was the same with the Kerrs) were given permission to roam at will, picking off important targets, pickets, officers, cannaneers, etc.. It was those few men that were the forerunners of modern snipers.

    Hey Ole, and let's not forget the "Swamp Angel" outside of Charleston or whereever it was. It too had its own tune, but exploded after just so many rounds!
    Later,
    FB
     
  17. CaseyRebel

    CaseyRebel Cadet

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    This is the valid shot that was fired by Sgt Grace,1000 yards recorded as a true ordered by his CO to take out this a General on the Union side.Story is as follows;

    The date was May 9th 1864, when Sgt Grace, a Confederate sniper, achieved what was considered to be an incredible shot at the time, and what is definitely the most ironic demise of a target in history. It was during the battle of Spotsylvania when Grace took aim with his British Whitworth Rifle. His target was General John Sedgwick (pictured above) and the distance was 1,000 yards. An extremely long distance for the time. During the beginning of the skirmish, the confederate sharpshooters were causing Sedgwick’s men to duck for cover. Sedgwick refused to duck and was quoted saying “What? Men dodging this way for single bullets? What will you do when they open fire along the whole line? I am ashamed of you. They couldn’t hit Elephants at this distance.” His men persisted in taking cover. He Repeated “They couldn’t hit elephants at this distance” Seconds Later Grace’s shot hits Sedgwick just under his left eye.

    I swear you couldn’t write it. Sedgwick was the highest ranking Union casualty in the civil war and upon hearing his death Lt. Gen. Ulysses S. Grant repeatedly asked “Is he really dead”.
     
  18. 7th Mississippi Infantry

    7th Mississippi Infantry Major Forum Host

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    Hello CaseyRebel.

    I always find General Sedgwick's quote amusing.

    Welcome to the forums.
     
  19. CaseyRebel

    CaseyRebel Cadet

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    THANK YOU and I am a history buff and have been since my teen years and a shooter since I was 8 ears old learning on the rifle my father killed himself with on November 24th 1959 Thanksgiving Day.This year past was the same day of the moth and day he did that in 1959,I ws 1 1/2 years old and my Mother was 2 months pregnant with my younger brother..

    I guess you can say I am a sharp shooter or sniper confined to a wheelchair at age 15 but I can shoot a Remington 300 Ultra mag 1500yards and have done 1800 several times but my best average is 1500.I have done a lot of shooting with and without a scope open sights are alittle hard now that my eyes are bad from so much gun powder and oil from modern rifles,shot guns and black powder.I couldn't start to h=guess the tonnage of ammo have shot during my years and now with a .22LR/.22WMR Revolver brass back strap that they don't make any more,an AK47,AR15(no lube).223/.308,and a 9mm I still shoot like I always did and I buy ammo in bulk since I d0 shoot a hell of a lot..

    I do want to thank you people for having me and if I can be of assistance just drop me a line and I will answer...
     
  20. 7th Mississippi Infantry

    7th Mississippi Infantry Major Forum Host

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    Glad to have you aboard, what a tragic story !

    I also learned to shoot around the same age.
    I can relate to that too ! :bounce:

    These days I'm doing very well if I harvest two doves per box of shells. :D
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2017
  21. keith herring

    keith herring Private

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    "Seeing the inefficiency of this design, Whitworth used a twisted hexagonal barrel, firing a long and skinny hex-shaped six-sided bullet. Using polygonal rifling, he experimented on different prototypes until he came up with a 530-grain .451-caliber bullet sent careening down a 33- inch barrel that used a 1:20 twist rate he was pleased with.

    In testing for the British Army, the gun proved far more accurate than the Enfield rifle. In a controlled environment with bench rests on a on a 14×14-foot target, the furthest reliable hits the Enfield could achieve were at 1,100 yards, registering a 96-inch group. The Whitworth obtained a 12-inch group at 1800-yards."
     

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