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Jefferson Davis and Pope Pius IX

Discussion in 'Civil War History - General Discussion' started by donna, Mar 18, 2011.

  1. donna

    donna Colonel Forum Host

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    After reading the thread and posts on Jefferson Davis's book, just thought I look more into his life. An interesting thing I just learned is his relationship with Pope Pius IX. Apparently, there are several letters between Jefferson Davis and the Pope. The Vatican is suppose to have them along with letters from Abraham Lincoln. During the Civil War, Union operatives were openly recruiting mercenaries in Europe. Davis respectfully brought this to the Pope's attention. The Pope said he would help out which he did by contacting the bishops of Europe to help bring an end to this. Whatever they did or said, it apparently stopped.

    In all their correspondence the Pope always referred to Davis as "His Excellency, Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate State of America". According to the Catholic Knight site they suggest that even thought Pope Pius IX never officially recognized the Confederacy, this showed sympathy for the South. From this they say we can glean three things about the Pope:

    "1. He called Jefferson Davis by the customary title "Honorable".

    2. He acknowledged him as president of a nation.

    3. In doing so, he (at least on a personal level) effectively recognized the Confederate States as a sovereign entity, separate from the United States of America."

    When the North found out about this, the White House was not happy and wrote letter to the Pope. They did get back response from the Vatican that stated the Pope's letter to Davis did not amount to an "official" recognition in the "formal sense". Whatever that is suppose to really mean.


    When Jefferson Davis was imprisoned after the war, he again heard from the Pope. The Pope sent Davis a portrait of Pope Pius IX , self autographed with words from Sacred Writ:

    "if any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me".

    Also the Pope was suppose to have sent a crown of Jerusalem thorns hand-woven by the Pope's own hands.

    These two items were given to the Confederate Memorial Hall Museum in New Orleans, Louisiana by Mrs. Davis after Jefferson Davis's death.

    Also while Davis was in prison, a Rosary was sent to Davis by the nuns ( The Sisters of Charity) of Savannah, Georgia. These same nuns, who according to Mrs. Davis, "The sisters came to see me and brought me all the money they had, five gold dollars. They almost forced me to take the money, but I did not. They then offered to take my children to their school in the neighborhood of Savannah, where the air was cool and they could be comfortably cared for during the summer month". This is taken from another Catholic source, "The Richmond - Rome Connection".

    I don't know if any one else has heard about these connections between Jefferson Davis and the Pope or if any one has been to the Confederate Memorial Hall Museum in New Orleans.

    According to "The Catholic Knight, Pope Pius IX and the Confederacy", the Pope was a revered figure in the post war South. They state that General Robert E. Lee kept a portrait of the Pope in his house and referred to him as the South's only true friend during her time of need. Both Davis and Lee were Episcopalians, as were many Southerners before the war. That denomination had many things in common with Catholicism before the 20th century influence of Modernism.
     

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  3. ConfederateGray

    ConfederateGray Cadet

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    I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that the story about the crown of thorns is untrue.
     
  4. trice

    trice Major

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  5. K Hale

    K Hale Colonel Civil War Photo Contest
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    Oh, please. Not directed at you, Donna :smile: but the general idea of Davis as some sort of Christ-like martyr. Give me a break!
     
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  6. donna

    donna Colonel Forum Host

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    Trice Thanks for website. It shows Mrs. Davis made the crown. The portrait and crown are in the Museum in New Orleans. It sounds like an interesting Museum to visit if one in New Orleans. Just wonder if any have been there.

    Do any of you know whether story about Robert E. Lee and Pope correct? I haven't read that any where else. Did he keep a portrait of the Pope in his home and did he say the Pope was the South's good friend? I know some of the Lee experts will probably know. I saw no reference when we visited the Lee Chapel in Lexington, Va. or don't remember any thing from Museum of the Confederacy in Richmond.
     
  7. trice

    trice Major

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    I have no knowledge of that one to share. Sorry.

    Tim
     
  8. Stonewall1982

    Stonewall1982 First Sergeant

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    I never knew any of this stuff that has been discussed in this thread. Another wrinkle on my brain!
     
  9. M E Wolf

    M E Wolf Brigadier General Moderator

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    O.R.--SERIES IV--VOLUME III [S# 129]
    CORRESPONDENCE, ORDERS, REPORTS, AND RETURNS OF THE CONFEDERATE AUTHORITIES FROM JANUARY 1, 1864, TO THE END.--#17
    BRUSSELS, May 9, 1864.
    His Excellency JEFFERSON DAVIS,
    President Confederate States of America:
    Mr. PRESIDENT: Herewith I have the honor to transmit the letter which His Holiness Pope Pius IX addressed to Your Excellency on the 3d of December last. Mr. W. Jefferson Buchanan has obligingly undertaken its conveyance and will deliver it in person.
    This letter will grace the archives of the Executive Office in all coming time. It will live forever in story as the production of the first potentate who formally recognized your official position and accorded to one of the diplomatic representatives of the Confederate States an audience in an established court palace, like that of St. James or the Tuileries.
    I have the honor to be, with the most distinguished consideration, Your Excellency's obedient servant,
    A. DUDLEY MANN.
    [Inclosure.(*)]
    PIUS NINTH--POPE.
    ILLUSTRIOUS AND HONORABLE SIR: Health! We have received with all fitting kindness the gentlemen sent by Your Excellency to deliver us your letters bearing date the 23d of September last. We certainly experienced no small pleasure when we learned from the same gentlemen and the letters of Your Excellency with what emotions of joy and gratitude toward us you were affected, illustrious and honorable sir, when you were first made acquainted with our letters to those reverend brethren, John, archbishop of New York, and John, archbishop of New Orleans, written on the 18th of October of last year, in which we again and again urged and exhorted the same reverend brethren that, as behooved their distinguished piety and their episcopal charge, they should most zealously use every effort in our name also, to bring to an end the fatal civil war that had arisen in those regions, and that those people of America might at length attain mutual peace and concord, and be united in mutual charity. And very grateful was it to us, illustrious and honorable sir, to perceive that you and those people were animated with the same feelings of peace and tranquillity which we so earnestly inculcated in the letters mentioned as having been addressed to the aforesaid reverend brethren. And would that other people also of those regions, and their rulers, seriously considering how grievous and mournful a thing is intestine war, would be pleased with tranquil minds to embrace and enter upon counsels of peace. We indeed shall not cease with most fervent prayers to beseech and pray God, the omnipotent and all-good, to pour out the spirit of Christian charity and peace upon all those people of America and deliver them from the evils so great with which they are afflicted.

    And of the most merciful Lord of compassion himself, we likewise pray that He may illumine Your Excellency with the light of His grace, and may conjoin you in perfect love with ourself.

    Given at Rome, at St. Peter's, December 3d, in the year 1863, and of our Pontificate the eighteenth.
    PlUS P. P. IX.
     
  10. ole

    ole Brev. Brig. Gen'l Retired Moderator

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    Got your wrinkle and double it down, Stonewall. I have no clue what we're talking about.
     
  11. M E Wolf

    M E Wolf Brigadier General Moderator

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    Navy O.R.-- Series II--Volume 3
    State Department correspondence with diplomatic agents, etc. (1862).
    From and to whom. Date. Subject. Page.
    1862.
    Pope Pius IX to Archbishop of New York. Oct. 18 Deplores state of war in America and urges prayers for peace and that people be exhorted to charity and conciliation. Similar letter has been written to Archbishop of New Orleans. 559
    --------------
    Navy O.R.-- Series II--Volume 3
    List of Papers pp. 151-202
    Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America, to A. Dudley Mann, greeting:
    Reposing special trust and confidence in your prudence, integrity, and ability, I do appoint you, the said A. Dudley Mann, special envoy of the Confederate States of America to the Holy See and to deliver to its most venerable chief, Pope Pius IX, sovereign pontiff of the Roman Catholic Church, a communication which I have addressed to his holiness under date of the 23d of this month.
    Given under my hand and the seal of the Confederate States of America, at the city of Richmond, this 24th day of September, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three.
    [SEAL.]
    JEFFERSON DAVIS.
    By the President:
    J.P. BENJAMIN,
    Secretary of State.
    ----------
    Navy O.R.-- Series II--Volume 3
    List of Papers pp. 553-599
    [Translation.]
    Pope Plus IX, to our Venerable Brother John, Archbishop of New York:
    VENERABLE BROTHER, HEALTH AND APOSTOLIC BENEDICTION:
    Among the various and most oppressive cares which weigh on us in these turbulent and perilous times, we are greatly afflicted by the truly lamentable state in which the Christian people of the United States of America are placed by the destructive civil war broken out among them.

    For, venerable brother, we can not but be overwhelmed with the deepest sorrow while we recapitulate with paternal feelings the slaughter, ruin, destruction, devastation, and the other innumerable and ever-to-be deplored calamities by which the people themselves are most miserably harassed and dilacerated. Hence, we have not ceased to offer up, in the humility of our hearts, our most fervent prayers to God, that He would deliver them from so many and so great evils.

    And we are fully assured that you also, venerable brother, pray and implore, without ceasing, the Lord of Mercies to grant solid peace and prosperity to that country. But since we, by virtue of the office of our apostolic ministry, embrace, with the deepest sentiments of charity, all the nations of the Christian world, and, though unworthy, administer here on earth the vice-regent work of Him who is the author of peace and the lover of charity, we can not refrain from inculcating again and again on the minds of the people themselves, and their chief rulers, mutual charity and peace.

    Wherefore we write you this letter, in which we urge you, venerable brother, with all the force and earnestness of our mind, to exhort, with your eminent piety and episcopal zeal, your clergy and faithful to offer up their prayers, and also apply all your study and exertion, with the people and their chief rulers, to restore forthwith the desired tranquillity and peace by which the happiness of both the Christian and the civil republic is principally maintained, wherefore, omit nothing you can undertake and accomplish by your wisdom, authority, and exertions, as far as compatible with the nature of the holy ministry, to conciliate the minds of the combatants, pacify, reconcile, and bring back the desired tranquillity and peace, by all those means that are most conducive to the best interests of the people.

    Take every pains, besides, to cause the people and their chief rulers seriously to reflect on the grievous evils with which they are afflicted, and which are the result of civil war, the direct and most destructive and dismal of all the evils that could befall a people or nation.

    Neither omit to admonish and exhort the people and their supreme rulers, even in our name, that with conciliated minds they would embrace peace and love each other with uninterrupted charity. For we are confident that they would comply with our paternal admonitions and hearken unto our words the more willingly as of themselves they plainly and clearly understand that we are influenced by no political reason, no earthly considerations, but impelled solely by paternal charity to exhort them to charity and peace. And study with your surpassing wisdom to persuade all that true prosperity even in this life is sought for in vain out of the true religion of Christ and its salutary doctrines.

    We have no hesitation, venerable brother, but that calling to your aid the services and assistance even of your associate bishops, you would abundantly satisfy these our wishes and by your wise and prudent efforts bring a matter of such moment to a happy termination.

    We wish you, moreover, to be informed that we write in a similar manner this very day to our venerable Brother John Mary, archbishop of New Orleans, that, counseling and conferring with you, he would direct all his thoughts and care most earnestly to accomplish the same object.

    May God, rich in mercy, grant that these our most ardent desires be accomplished and as soon as possible our heart may exult in the Lord over peace restored to that people.

    In fine, it is most pleasing to us to avail ourselves of this opportunity to again testify the special esteem in which we hold you. Of which, also,, receive a most assured pledge, the apostolic benediction, which, coming from the inmost recesses of our heart, we most lovingly bestow on you, venerable brother, and the flock committed to your charge.

    Dated Rome, at St. Peter's, October 18, 1862, in the seventeenth year of our pontificate.
    POPE PIUS IX.
    -----
     
  12. M E Wolf

    M E Wolf Brigadier General Moderator

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    Navy O.R.-- Series II--Volume 3
    List of Papers pp. 902-950
    DEPARTMENT OF STATE,
    Richmond, September 23, 1863.
    SIR: The President having read the published letter of his Holiness Pope Pius the Ninth, inviting the Catholic clergy of New Orleans and New York to use all their efforts for the restoration of peace in our country, has deemed proper to convey to his Holiness by letter his own thanks and those of our people for the Christian charity and sympathy displayed in the letter of his Holiness as published, and of which you will find a copy annexed.

    The President therefore directs that you proceed in person to Rome and there deliver to his Holiness the President's letter herein enclosed, and of which a copy is also enclosed for your own information, and you will receive herewith a special commission appointing you as envoy for the purpose above expressed.

    I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
    J.P. BENJAMIN,
    Secretary of State.
    Hon. A. DUDLEY MANN, etc., Brussels.
    [ Enclosures. ]
    EXECUTIVE OFFICE,
    Richmond, September 23, 1863.
    Most Venerable Chief of the Holy See and Sovereign Pontiff of the Roman Catholic Church.

    The letters which your Holiness addressed to the venerable chiefs of the Catholic clergy in New Orleans and New York have been brought to my attention, and I have read with emotion the terms in which you are pleased to express the deep sorrow with which you regard the slaughter, ruin, and devastation consequent on the war now waged by the Government of the United States against the States and people over which I have been chosen to preside, and in which you direct them, and the clergy under their authority, to exhort the people and the rulers to the exercise of mutual charity and the love of peace. I as deeply sensible of the Christian charity and sympathy with which your Holiness has twice appealed to the venerable clergy of your church, urging them to use and apply all study and exertion for the restoration of peace and tranquility.

    I therefore deem it my duty to offer to your Holiness in my own name and in that of the people of the Confederate States the expression of our sincere and cordial appreciation of the Christian charity and love by which your Holiness is actuated, and to assure you that this people at whose hearthstones the enemy is now pressing with threats of dire oppression and merciless carnage are now and ever have been earnestly desirous that this wicked war shall cease; that we have offered at the footstool of Our Father who is in heaven prayers inspired by the same feelings which animated your Holiness; that we desire no evil to our enemies, nor do we covet any of their possessions; but are only struggling to the end that they shall cease to devastate our land and inflict useless and cruel slaughter upon our people; and that we be permitted to live at peace with all mankind under our own laws and institutions, which protect every man in the enjoyment not only of his temporal rights but of the freedom of worshiping God according to his own faith.

    I therefore pray your Holiness to accept from me and from the people of these Confederate States this assurance of our sincere thanks for your effort to aid the cause of peace, and of our earnest wishes that your life may be prolonged and that God may have you in His holy keeping.
    JEFFERSON DAVIS,
    President of the Confederate States of North America.
    -----

    Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America, to A. Dudley Mann, greeting.

    Reposing special trust and confidence in your prudence, integrity, and ability, I do appoint you, the said A. Dudley Mann, special envoy of the Confederate States of America, to proceed to the Holy See and to deliver to its most venerable chief, Pope Pius IX, sovereign pontiff of the Roman Catholic Church, a communication which I have addressed to his Holiness under date of the twenty-third of this month.
    Given under my hand and the seal of the Confederate States of America at the city of Richmond, this 24th day of September, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three.
    SEAL.]
    JEFFERSON DAVIS.
    By the President:
    J.P. BENJAMIN,
    Secretary of State.
    -----
     
  13. M E Wolf

    M E Wolf Brigadier General Moderator

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    Navy O.R.-- Series II--Volume 3
    Proclamations, appointments, etc., of President Davis,
    February 12, 1861, to January 28, 1865.
    Name. Date. Subject. Page.
    1863.
    President Davis to A. Dudley Mann. Sept. 24 Appoints A. Dudley Mann special envoy of Confederate States to the Holy See. 152

    1864.
    John Slidell, Paris, to State Department. Nov. 28(No. 75.) Joint note to different European powers has been forwarded through their several legations with exception of that to Russia, which was mailed to St. Petersburg to minister of foreign affairs. Encloses correspondence in connection with note for Papal States and reply of Earl Russell to Joint note claiming that Great Britain will continue to maintain a strict and impartial neutrality. 1244

    Do. Dec. 13(No. 76.) Dispatch No. 43 received. Had adopted in advance line of conduct toward French Government pointed out therein. Department is in error in statement that French Government forced builders to sell vessels to third parties. Builder of Bordeaux ships made such assertion on his own account. Incloses copy of letter(1) on the subject of 7 per cent loan. Mr. Drouyn de Lhuys has asked opinion of English cabinet relative to neutral merchandise on board enemy's ships. Has received answer of Holy See to joint note, encloses copy. Earl Russell's reply to note will not be pleasing to North. Learns that Brazilian minister at Washington is instructed to demand ample apology, delivery of the Florida, etc. 1247

    =======================================Page numbers in green=====

    Navy O.R.-- Series II--Volume 3
    List of Papers pp. 902-950
    No. 66.]
    ROME, November 11, 1863.
    SIR: As I expected at the date of my No. 65. I reached here on the 9th instant, late in the afternoon.
    On the 11th, at half past 1 p.m., I sought and promptly obtained an interview with his Eminence, the Cardinal Secretary of State, Antonelli. I at once explained to him the object of my mission to Rome and he instantly assured me that he would obtain for me an audience of the sovereign Pontiff.His Eminence then remarked that he could not withhold from me an expression of his unbounded admiration of the wonderful powers which we had exhibited in the field in resistance to a war which had been prosecuted with an energy, aided by the employment of all the recent improvements in the instruments for the destruction of life and property, unparalleled, perhaps, in the world's history. He asked me several questions with respect to President Davis, at the end of which he observed that he certainly had created for himself a name that would rank with those of the most illustrious statesmen of modern times. He manifested an earnest desire for the definitive termination of hostilities, and observed that there was nothing the government of the Holy See could do with propriety to occasion such a result that it was not prepared to do. I seized the utterance of this assurance to inform him that but for the European recruits received by the North, numbering annually something like 100,000, the Lincoln Administration, in all likelihood, would have been compelled some time before this to have retired from the contest that nearly all those recruits were from Ireland, and that Christianity had cause to weep at such a fiendish destruction of life as occurred from the beguiling of those people from their homes to take up arms against citizens who had never harmed or wronged them in the slightest degree. He appeared to be touched by my statement, and intimated that an evil so disgraceful to humanity was not beyond the reach of a salutary remedy.

    His Eminence, after a short pause, took a rapid survey of the affairs of the nations of the earth, and drew a rather somber picture of the future, particularly of Europe. ,He did not attempt to conceal his dislike of England, his want of sympathy with Russia, his distrust of any benefits which might be expected from the congress proposed by France. "If old guaranties," said he, emphatically, "are of no value, new ones will be too feeble to resist expediency when sustained by might."

    This is but a short and otherwise imperfect outline of one of the most interesting official interviews I ever enjoyed, an interview which was of lengthened duration and marked from beginning to end with extreme cordiality and courtesy by the distinguished functionary by whom it was accorded. I will add, lest I may not have been sufficiently explicit on that point, that it took place in his office in the Vatican, where he receives all the foreign ministers.

    I have the honor to be, sir, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
    A. DUDLEY MANN.
    Hon. J.P. BENJAMIN,
    Secretary of State, C. S. A., Richmond, Va.

     
  14. M E Wolf

    M E Wolf Brigadier General Moderator

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    Navy O.R.-- Series II--Volume 3
    List of Papers pp. 950-1000
    No. 68.]
    ROME, November 21, 1863.
    SIR: I confidently trust that my Nos. 66 and 67, giving detailed accounts of my audience with the sovereign pontiff and of my interview with the cardinal secretary of state, will have been in your possession some days previous to the arrival of this. Lest, however, they may have been delayed on their way to their destination, I will state that my reception at the Vatican was cordial in the broadest sense of the word, and that my mission has been as successful as the President could have possibly desired it to be.

    On the 19th I had a second interview with Cardinal Antonelli. I intended it to be of short duration, but he became so much interested in the communications which I made to him that he prolonged it for nearly an hour. He took the occasion to inform me, at the commencement, that the acting representative of the United States had obtained an interview of him the day before to remonstrate against the facilities afforded by the government of the holy see to "Rebels" for entering and abiding in Rome; and that he, the cardinal, promptly replied that he intended to take such "Rebels" under his special protection, because it would be making exactions upon elevated humanity which it was incapable of conscientiously complying with, to expect them to take an oath of allegiance to a country which they bitterly detested. I may add, in this connection, that such passports as you may issue will receive the visa of the nuncio at Paris or Brussels, and that there is now nowhere that the nationality of a citizen of the Confederate States is not as much respected as that of the United States except in the dark hole of the North of Europe.

    We have been virtually, if not practically, recognized here. While I was in the foreign office the day before yesterday, foreign ministers were kept waiting for a considerable length of time in the antechamber in order that my interview might not be disturbed. Frequently the cardinal would take my hand between his and exclaim: "Mon cher, your Government has accomplished prodigies, alike in the cabinet and in the field."

    Antonelli is emphatically the State. He is perhaps the very best informed statesman of his time. His channels for obtaining intelligence from every quarter of the earth are more multifarious and reliable than even those of the French. His worst enemies accord to him abilities of the very highest order. They say that he is utterly unscrupulous as to the means which he employs, but that no other man could have saved the temporal power of the Pope. He is bold, courageous, resolute, and is a great admirer of President Davis, because he is distinguished by those qualities, qualities which, if supported by good judgment, will, in his opinion, ever win the object to which they are devoted.

    Of course I can form no conjecture when the letter of his holiness to the President will be ready for delivery. Weeks, perhaps months, may elapse first. With my explanations to him upon the subject of slavery, I indulge the hope that he will not allude, hurtfully to us, to the subject. As soon as I receive it I will endeavor to prevail with him to have the correspondence published in the official Journal here, or to give me permission to bring it out in the Paris Moniteur. Its information would be powerful upon all the Catholic governments in both hemispheres, and I would return to Brussels and make an appeal to King Leopold to exert himself with Great Britain, Prussia, etc., in our behalf. Thus I am exceedingly hopeful that before spring our independence will be generally acknowledged. Russia alone will most probably stand aloof until we are recognized by the North, as she has now, at least ostensibly, identified her fortunes with that distracted and demon-like division of the old Union.

    So far my mission has not found its way into the newspapers. I wish to keep it secret in order that the publication of the letters may, from the unexpectedness, cause a salutary sensation everywhere when it occurs.

    I have reason to believe that what I have said in high places in relation to Irish emigration to New York were words in season.
    I have the honor to be, sir, very respectfully, your obedient servant,
    A. DUDLEY MANN.
    Hon. J. P. BENJAMIN,
    Secretary of State, C. S. A., Richmond, Va.
    -----
     
  15. M E Wolf

    M E Wolf Brigadier General Moderator

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    Navy O.R.-- Series II--Volume 3
    List of Papers pp. 1204-end
    LBERGO D'INGHILTERRA,
    Rome, November 21, 1864.
    MY DEAR SIR: Immediately on my arrival here I sought the residence of the Right Rev. Bishop Lynch and learned that he had left Rome, to be absent several weeks, in consequence of which the duty devolved upon me of delivering your dispatch to the Roman Government. I lost no time in addressing a note to Cardinal Antonelli (a copy of which I hand you), and he promptly returned an answer to my messenger saying it would give him pleasure to receive me the next day (Saturday) at 2 o'clock.

    Accordingly I waited on the cardinal at the appointed hour and he gave me a most cordial greeting, shaking my hand warmly, and, leading me to a seat near his desk, he at once entered upon the discussion of the affairs of the Confederate States. He made no secret of his sympathy with our cause and had not the slightest hesitation in saying he desired our success. He displayed entire familiarity with the state of things both at the North and South, and especially with the necessity of receiving Northern accounts with due modification. He adverted to the case of the Florida and pronounced it an inexcusable outrage, and added that he had received a letter from Brazil which stated prompt redress would be demanded; and, further, that it was an offense which no European Government could quietly submit to without protest.

    I can not detail everything that dropped from his Eminence during my interview, which lasted over half an hour, but I was more than gratified with the great interest he manifested in the cause dear to our hearts.

    At the first opening in the conversation I formally presented the joint letter of the Commissioners (with the enclosed documents), which he read in my presence and then remarked that it should have his more deliberate examination and would then be laid before the Holy Father. I rose to leave when he said he would be glad to present me to the Holy Father and would send me word when the interview could be had. Of course I was only too happy to have so favorable an opportunity of doing my utmost to follow up the manifesto of our Government by whatever eloquence I can command, and as I am to have the services of Monsignor Talbot as my interpreter, I hope to do some little good. Monsignor Talbot is an English ecclesiastic and attached to the household of the Holy Father. After thanking his Eminence cordially for his kind reception I took my leave, he again shaking me by the hand and leading me across several apartments to the last door.

    I am thus minute that I may show you exactly how our cause stands with this court and how I have been able to carry out your wishes in the absence of our regular representative.
    Very truly,
    J. T. SOUTTER.
    Hon. JNO. SLIDELL.
    [Enclosure.]
    ALBERGO D'INGHILTERRA,
    Rome, November 18, 1864.
    EMINENCE: In the absence of the Right Rev. Bishop Lynch from Rome it is made my agreeable duty to ask of your Eminence an interview that I may present an official dispatch from the accredited representatives in Europe of the Confederate States of America, together with certain public documents referred to therein.

    May I most respectfully ask of your Eminence such an audience and to add, in case that favor is granted to me, that your Eminence will name the day and hour when I may wait Upon your Eminence.

    I have the honor to be, most respectfully, your Eminence's obedient and humble servant,
    J. T. SOUTTER.
    His Eminence Monseigneur Cardinal ANTONELLI,
    Secretary of State and Minister of Foreign Affairs
    of the Roman States.
    -----

    No. 76.]
    PARIS, December 13, 1864.
    SIR: Since I last had the honor of addressing you your missing dispatch No. 43 of 20th September has come safely to hand. You will have seen by my recent dispatches that my views of the course of the French Government are almost identical with your own, and that I have been so fortunate as to have adopted in advance the line of conduct which you have pointed out to me. There is a point however in regard to which it is proper that I should remove false impressions, viz, that of this Government "having refused permission to finish the vessels for delivery to us after the restoration of peace and actually forced the builders to sell them to third parties."

    I do not think that there would have been any difficulty about finishing the vessels for delivery to us after the restoration of peace. I am sure that the builders were never forced to sell them to third parties, and that no pressure for that object was ever exercised toward them by the Government. The builder of the Bordeaux ships did, as I was informed, make assertions to that effect, but I am fully convinced that they were pure fictions gotten up to subserve his own views, he being deeply interested in finding purchasers to whom the ships could be delivered and their entire price paid, while under his contracts with Captain Bulloch full payment was only to be made when the actual delivery of the ships should have been made to him and such delivery would not have been permitted. I am happy to say that the conduct of Mr. Voruz, the builder of the corvettes at Nantes, is in strong contrast with that of Mr. Arman.

    In my last dispatch I referred to the complaints of Mr. J. S. Begbie, agent of the Albion Trading Company, of the refusal to deliver cotton in exchange for certificates in compliance with the stipulations of the contract made with Mr. McRae and myself. I have since received from Messrs. Schroeder & Co., agents in London of the 7 per cent cotton loan, a letter on that subject, of which I send you a copy. I suggest the propriety of transmitting it either to the Secretary of the Treasury or to the Secretary of War, as I am in doubt to which of these departments the subject more appropriately belongs.

    Lord Cowley for some reason or other did not avail himself of his invitation to Compiègne, of which I spoke in my last dispatch, and only returned from London a few days since, but during his absence Mr. Drouyn de Lhuys did not neglect to call, as he promised, the attention of the British Government to the subject of your No. 43. as will appear by the following extract from a note from my friend at the foreign affairs:

    M. Drouyn de Lhuys has written to our embassy In London on the subject of the proposition of your Government, relative to the neutral merchandise on board of enemies' ships, and to know the opinion of the English cabinet on this subject. He has also spoken to the ministers of marine and commerce In expressing the opinion that the proposition will be very acceptable. He waits a reply, which I will not neglect to ask him to communicate to me.

    I expect soon to hear the result of this overture to the British Government.

    I have received the answer of the holy see to the joint note of 11th November. I annex copy of Cardinal Antonelli's letter, with a translation. As I find it less decided in its tone than the letter of 3d December last of his Holiness to the President, I do not think it expedient to publish it and have so said to Messrs. Mason and Mann. Should they, however, entertain a different opinion, I will cheerfully yield to it. I send you an interesting account from Mr. [James T.] Soutter of his presentation to the Pope.

    Our joint note was not of a nature to call for a reply from the Governments to which it was addressed, nor did I expect any, less indeed from Great Britain than from any other power. The letter of Earl Russell, on which I had not time to comment in my No. 75, has for me a greater significance on that account, as his lordship voluntarily went out of his way to say the most disagreeable things possible to the Northern Government. His reference to the treaty of 1783 will, I think, be especially distasteful to them, placed in connection with his twice-repeated recognition of the separate existence of the North and South as never merged in a single nationality. I shall be very much surprised if this letter does not call forth a universal howl against his lordship from the Northern press.

    I learn from M. Carvalho de Moreira that the Brazilian diplomatic agents in Europe have received no instructions to invoke the good offices of the neutral powers in the case of the Florida, but he informs me that he has seen the instructions given to the minister at Washington. He is to demand an ample apology, the delivery of the Florida in good order, with her officers, crew, and armament at Bahia, and the exemplary punishment of the commander of the Wachusett. The return of the Florida being rendered impossible by the scurvy trick of sinking her in port as if by accident, I presume that the Brazilian Government will demand that she be replaced by another vessel of a similar character and armament. M. C. de Moreira says that the Emperor of Brazil is incensed to the highest degree by the outrage, and, being a man of great firmness, will not be satisfied with anything short of the most ample reparation.

    I have the honor to be, with great respect, your most obedient servant,
    JOHN SLIDELL.
    Hon. J. P. BENJAMIN,
    Secretary of State.
    -----
    -----
    [Translation of Cardinal Antonelli's dispatch.]
    ROME, December 2, 1864.

    HONORABLE GENTLEMEN: Your colleague, Mr. Soutter, has handed me your letter of 11th November, with which, in conformity with the instructions of your Government, you have sent me a copy of the manifesto issued by the Congress of the Confederate States and approved by the most honorable President, in order that the attention of the government of the Holy See, to whom, as well as to the other Governments, you have addressed yourselves, might be called to it. The sentiments expressed in the manifesto tending, as they do, to the cessation of the most bloody war which still rages in your countries and the putting an end to the disasters which accompany it by proceeding to negotiations for peace, being entirely in accordance with the disposition and character of the august head 'of the Catholic Church, I did not hesitate a moment in bringing it to the notice of the Holy Father.

    His Holiness, who has been deeply afflicted by the accounts of the frightful carnage of this obstinate struggle, has heard with satisfaction the expression of the same sentiments; being the vicar on earth of that God who is the author of peace, he yearns to see these wraths appeased and peace restored. In proof of this he wrote to the archbishops of New York and New Orleans as far back as 18th October, , inviting them to exert themselves in bringing about this holy object. You may then, honorable gentlemen, feel well assured that whenever a favorable occasion shall present itself, his Holiness will not fail to avail himself of it to hasten so desirable a result and that all nations may be united in the bonds of charity.

    In acquainting you with this benignant disposition of the Holy Father, I am pleased to declare myself with sentiments of the most distinguished esteem.
    Truly, your servant,
    G. CAR. ANTONELLI.
    [DELLA S. S. L'I'MO.]

    Messrs. A. DUDLEY MANN, J. M. MASON, JOHN SLIDELL,
    Commissioners of the Confederate States of America,
    Paris.
    -----
     
  16. OpnCoronet

    OpnCoronet Captain

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    The way of Old World diplomacy was ever a snare for the csa and its envoys.
     
  17. trice

    trice Major

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    At the time, Cardinal Antonelli (who was, IIRR, the last of the "lay cardinals" -- IOW never a deacon or a priest or consecrated a bishop) was regarded as the greatest practicing Machiavellian diplomat in Europe. It was generally acknowledged that his diplomacy kept the old Papal States alive 20 years longer than would otherwise have been the case. Taking anything he said, or any negotiation he was involved in, at face value is a big mistake.

    Tim
     
  18. donna

    donna Colonel Forum Host

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    I am bringing this to top as forum member asked about Pope and the Confederacy.
     
  19. KeyserSoze

    KeyserSoze 1st Lieutenant Forum Host

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    Thanks for your kindness.
     

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