I'm very new with the muskets and calibers and such so

peteanddelmar

2nd Lieutenant
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Missouri
HELP!

What was the caliber of the most standard issued Union rifled musket?

Same for the Confederacy. Maybe by 1863?

I know Sigel's Germans carried a .69 caliber rifled elephant gun, correct?

I have a friend that said that a .55 caliber was the standard issue on both sides? I hadn't heard or read that size.

Just give me a rough outline. I'm not good at this.
 
HELP!

What was the caliber of the most standard issued Union rifled musket?

Same for the Confederacy. Maybe by 1863?

I know Sigel's Germans carried a .69 caliber rifled elephant gun, correct?

I have a friend that said that a .55 caliber was the standard issue on both sides? I hadn't heard or read that size.

Just give me a rough outline. I'm not good at this.

The most common - i.e. closest to a standard for both sides - would have been the .58 Springfield and the .577 Enfield (English made). They could both fire the same .58 Minie round. Those .69 rifled guns were ones converted from older smooth bores that had been in armories.
 
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The most common - i.e. closest to a standard for both sides - would have been the .58 Springfield and the .577 Enfield (English made). They could both fire the same .58 Minie round. Those .69 rifled guns were ones converted from older smooth bores that had been in armories.
The .69 (69/100ths of an inch) smoothbore muskets fired buck and ball-1 69 caliber shot and 3 buckshot which were probably much deadlier at close range that the Springfield or Enfield rifles. Some units such as the Irish Brigade actually seemed to favor the smoothbore with buck and ball for close in fighting.
 
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The .69 (69/100ths of an inch) fired buck and ball-1 69 caliber shot and 3 buckshot which were probably much deadlier at close range that the Springfield or Enfield rifles. Some units such as the Irish Brigade actually seemed to favor the smoothbore with buck and ball for close in fighting.

Very true. They could also fire a .69 Minie style bullet (a friend of mine has several he collected) although apparently with less range and accuracy than the Springfield or Enfield. I've read that more than one unit decided to keep their .69s because they thought the buck and ball a better bet. I tend to think they were right. Skirmishers/sharpshooters would have done better with Minie bullets but I think given the typical range of combat that b&b was probably at least as good and somewhat quicker to load.
 
The .69 (69/100ths of an inch) smoothbore muskets fired buck and ball-1 69 caliber shot and 3 buckshot which were probably much deadlier at close range that the Springfield or Enfield rifles. Some units such as the Irish Brigade actually seemed to favor the smoothbore with buck and ball for close in fighting.

I thought I read that Sigel's men had rifled .69's? Were they ever converted?
 
Some of the .69s were converted - i.e. rifled - and some remained smooth bore. If they were rifled, then they were converted. Rifled .69s could use either a Minie or a round ball or b&b; smooth bores could only use the last two. Both converted and non-converted .69s were used during the war but I don't know about Sigel's use per se.

Somebody who knows what Sigel used please come to the rescue !
 
Some of the .69s were converted - i.e. rifled - and some remained smooth bore. If they were rifled, then they were converted. Rifled .69s could use either a Minie or a round ball or b&b; smooth bores could only use the last two. Both converted and non-converted .69s were used during the war but I don't know about Sigel's use per se.

Somebody who knows what Sigel used please come to the rescue !

Seems like if the gun could stand the pressure and enough powder was used, that a .69 rifle would reach out and touch some one! And they wouldn't need a doctor!
 
Seems like if the gun could stand the pressure and enough powder was used, that a .69 rifle would reach out and touch some one! And they wouldn't need a doctor!

Well now we're getting out to the edge of my technical knowledge but IIRC the rifling on the converted guns was, by necessity, shallow and thus the spin and seal not as good as with .58s. Therefore, the range and accuracy suffered by comparison. But yeah, if you were unlucky enough to get hit I'd say you were one busted unit. Also, if you had to shoot one of those all day you were one sore unit I'd think.
 
Well now we're getting out to the edge of my technical knowledge but IIRC the rifling on the converted guns was, by necessity, shallow and thus the spin and seal not as good as with .58s. Therefore, the range and accuracy suffered by comparison. But yeah, if you were unlucky enough to get hit I'd say you were one busted unit. Also, if you had to shoot one of those all day you were one sore unit I'd think.

I almost said "can you imagine firing that all day?"

My son's friends have very modern rifles. Even his AK-47 puts off more smoke. He has a friend that makes a living making lifetime armor plated resetting jumping targets. I fired several rounds with the AK and smoked up the area. These young boys wouldn't fire it! (It did have a very short collapsible shoulder stock which with a scope could almost make you into a pirate pretty quick)
 
There were only about 14K 69 caliber muskets that were altered with rifling... A rather small number comparatively to the many hundreds of thousands of the other varieties.... A failed experiment when it was soon noted that the rifled 69's didn't have the proficiency nor accuracy that was found in the rifled 58's. So they ceased bothering with the rifling of any more of them. What they already had was issued on out the door... inherited faults and all...

69 Caliber Smoothbore ammunition was manufactured in Round Ball, Buck & Ball, and also Buckshot...
 
There were only about 14K 69 caliber muskets that were altered with rifling... A rather small number comparatively to the many hundreds of thousands of the other varieties.... A failed experiment when it was soon noted that the rifled 69's didn't have the proficiency nor accuracy that was found in the rifled 58's. So they ceased bothering with the rifling of any more of them. What they already had was issued on out the door... inherited faults and all...

69 Caliber Smoothbore ammunition was manufactured in Round Ball, Buck & Ball, and also Buckshot...

Thank you kind sirs.

Was there ever a .55 caliber musket on either side?
 
There were several rifled .69's. The Rifled M1842 is the best known but there was also the Special Model 1842 (aka Fremont) & the Remington Maynard Conversion of the M1816 which also fired a .69 minie. To add to the confusion there was the standard M1842, percussion conversionsof the M1816 both of which fired standard .69 buck n ball. The US govt didn't import a lot of .71 ammo (standard for Belgian & French Arms) so .69 buck n ball was issued. Numbers of French & Belgian .71 arms were imported as well and to be honest many a soldier didn't know .69 from .71 or .58 for that matter.

In the 1850's the US did some serious experimentation keeping an eye on small arms advancements in France & England. A budding Sect of War named Jefferson Davis ordered the testing that would eventually lead to the M1855 series arms. They tested the .54 used in US rifles (M1841) and a minnie in .69 out of an experimental rifled M1842. They found the .69 was actually more accurate than the .54 but the recoil was significantly greater. This is what led to the .58 calibre round. I can attest to the recoil of the Rifled M1842, it is significant out of my Special Model 1864, bearable but after 25-30 rounds... not so much.
 
There were several rifled .69's. The Rifled M1842 is the best known but there was also the Special Model 1842 (aka Fremont) & the Remington Maynard Conversion of the M1816 which also fired a .69 minie. To add to the confusion there was the standard M1842, percussion conversionsof the M1816 both of which fired standard .69 buck n ball. The US govt didn't import a lot of .71 ammo (standard for Belgian & French Arms) so .69 buck n ball was issued. Numbers of French & Belgian .71 arms were imported as well and to be honest many a soldier didn't know .69 from .71 or .58 for that matter.

In the 1850's the US did some serious experimentation keeping an eye on small arms advancements in France & England. A budding Sect of War named Jefferson Davis ordered the testing that would eventually lead to the M1855 series arms. They tested the .54 used in US rifles (M1841) and a minnie in .69 out of an experimental rifled M1842. They found the .69 was actually more accurate than the .54 but the recoil was significantly greater. This is what led to the .58 calibre round. I can attest to the recoil of the Rifled M1842, it is significant out of my Special Model 1864, bearable but after 25-30 rounds... not so much.

How much worse than clay targets with a shotgun?
 
I bet all you guys can go to a gun show with empty shotgun shells and come out with a $5o00 gun!
I wish... a buddy of mine who is a Trapdoor Springfield collector picked up a ACW Ballard at a gunshow in Texas w/ the intention of reselling it to me for a small profit, he got a good deal becuase the action was seized up so he got a nice deal. He got it home and dropped a range rod down and discovered it was loaded. He spent a while getting the breach loosened up enough to open; he found not a live round but a cylinder with the mans discharge papers & receipt for that rifle. Needless to say he didn't sell it to me.

My father has gotten real deals at shows but my only sweet deal came from walking into a pawn shop and seeing an M1841 on the wall which I not only could afford but later traced to the man who carried it, or one like it.
 
Powder loads.jpg
 
I wish... a buddy of mine who is a Trapdoor Springfield collector picked up a ACW Ballard at a gunshow in Texas w/ the intention of reselling it to me for a small profit, he got a good deal becuase the action was seized up so he got a nice deal. He got it home and dropped a range rod down and discovered it was loaded. He spent a while getting the breach loosened up enough to open; he found not a live round but a cylinder with the mans discharge papers & receipt for that rifle. Needless to say he didn't sell it to me.

My father has gotten real deals at shows but my only sweet deal came from walking into a pawn shop and seeing an M1841 on the wall which I not only could afford but later traced to the man who carried it, or one like it.

That is way cool Johan! Any chance your friend could be persuaded to post some picks of those documents?

And the gun??
 
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