Help ID a Civil War? era bullet

sandfisher

Cadet
Joined
Nov 18, 2013
I'm new to identification on Civil War items.
Here's the story. I found a new place to metal detect in a park(legal in city parks). In a small area over 1 month I have dug over 100 coins, 1 - 1881 Indian head penny, ton of junk, few buttons (don't think these are old, not sure) and this bullet.
I have done some research, but still clueless on an actual ID.
Any idea on the type of bullet.
It is 11 mm X 7 mm
Thank you,
sandfisher
 

Attachments

  • PB170061c.jpg
    PB170061c.jpg
    35.9 KB · Views: 1,198
  • PB170062.jpg
    PB170062.jpg
    81.8 KB · Views: 727
  • PB080053.jpg
    PB080053.jpg
    57.5 KB · Views: 433
  • PB080054.jpg
    PB080054.jpg
    82.4 KB · Views: 454
There are a few things you can deductively do to narrow your search. The first being the location of where you're digging. If you're digging in a city park in Cheyenne, Wyoming I would say its probably not a CW bullet. If you are digging in Ringgold, Georgia your chances of it being a CW bullet would be much better. If there is one there should be more. Usually you won't just find one bullet but at least a few. Battlefields, camp areas and anywhere Civil War soldiers spent a few minutes would be littered with debris including bullets even after aggresive metal detecting.

What else are you finding in the area? If you are finding only post Civil War dated coins and items chances are more than likely your bullet is an old hunting bullet or modern round. Towards the middle and end of the war the types of bullets you would find are pretty standard; ie 3 ring minnie, Enfields, Gardners, Spencers, Sharps etc. The bullet you found looks to be a generic "pickett" type round which would be nearly impossible to track.
 
I seem to see a type of green oxidation on the bullet. Does the bullet have a guilding metal (a mixture of copper and zinc) jacket covering a lead core? If so, then I would classify the bullet as late 19th or 20th century origin.

Are there any rifling marks on the bullet? The presence of rifling marks would indicate a bullet that was fired through a gun barrel. The lack of rifling marks indicated an unfired bullet.

To me, the "Mepat" (curvature of the nose) looks like that of a generic .44 or .45 caliber bullet.

Does the bullet weigh in the vicinity of 225-235 Grains? Have that Full Metal Jacket I mentioned above? Perhaps originally 11.43 M/M in diameter? If so, then it might have been a standard issue, U.S. military .45 ACP bullet.

Literally billions of these pistol bullets were manufactured before, during and after World War I. World War II, the Korean and Viet Nam Wars. Many of these military rounds were also sold in the post-war surplus market to civilian shooters, so the numerical "odds" are in favor of the bullet being a military .45 ACP bullet.
 
I seem to see a type of green oxidation on the bullet. Does the bullet have a guilding metal (a mixture of copper and zinc) jacket covering a lead core? If so, then I would classify the bullet as late 19th or 20th century origin.

Are there any rifling marks on the bullet? The presence of rifling marks would indicate a bullet that was fired through a gun barrel. The lack of rifling marks indicated an unfired bullet.

To me, the "Mepat" (curvature of the nose) looks like that of a generic .44 or .45 caliber bullet.

Does the bullet weigh in the vicinity of 225-235 Grains? Have that Full Metal Jacket I mentioned above? Perhaps originally 11.43 M/M in diameter? If so, then it might have been a standard issue, U.S. military .45 ACP bullet.

Literally billions of these pistol bullets were manufactured before, during and after World War I. World War II, the Korean and Viet Nam Wars. Many of these military rounds were also sold in the post-war surplus market to civilian shooters, so the numerical "odds" are in favor of the bullet being a military .45 ACP bullet.


I have to say I love the wealth of information already.
It weighs 10.7 grams
On my detector is showed as 62 on the scale which is zinc/penny.
Quite heavy on the green patina. It would really take some cleaning to see any marks.
As far as what I am finding. Coins from recent to wheat pennies to the one 1881 Indian head penny. 120 coins in 9 hunts out there
Lots of junk, scrap. And there are so many hits it will take a while to sort through it all.
I can imagine I will be patient and hit this area for years. alot of area to cover over all.
The place, if your wondering where it is I'm detecting, is Milby Park off 225 and 610 in southeast Houston/Pasadena area. this park has alot of history.

I don't have alot of knowledge about bullets so this is a big learning process.
Thank you,

sandfisher
 
As the bullet weighs 10.7 Grams (165 Grains) it is a bit too light to be a .45 ACP bullet. In addition, IF it were a .45 ACP bullet, looking at the flat base would reveal the bottom of the white oxidized lead core. Scratching that base with a sharp knife would reveal a "silver" looking metal under the white oxidation.

Right off the bat, the only solid brass bullet I can think of is the 8 M/M bullet of the World War I, French Lebel service rifle. That 8 M/M bullet was smaller in diameter than the bullet you found, longer and shaped quite differently.

You might have a "decorative" brass/zinc turning. That would make sense IF there is a threaded hole in the base, hence it could be some type of cabinet or drawer Pull.

Could you post some more photos, say of the base?
 
After scraping I do see the silver looking metal.
cabinet or drawer Pull? What does that mean specifically? I have alot to learn with bullets.The pics aren't that great. I'll keep working on better pics.

Thank you,
sandfisher
 

Attachments

  • PB180065b.jpg
    PB180065b.jpg
    41.7 KB · Views: 301
  • PB180066b.jpg
    PB180066b.jpg
    40.2 KB · Views: 283
  • PB180068b.jpg
    PB180068b.jpg
    37.4 KB · Views: 294
  • PB180072b.jpg
    PB180072b.jpg
    122.6 KB · Views: 294
  • PB180075b.jpg
    PB180075b.jpg
    131.1 KB · Views: 284
Well, that looks like a jacketed .45 ACP pistol bullet. Originally it weighed around 230 Grains-I guess that it could have lost 50 or 60 grains over the years due to oxidation.

Have you been able to determine that there are any rifling marks on the jacket?
 
Would you recommend cleaning the bullet? Stripping all the green off the bullet will be the only to tell.
I will clean it tomorrow unless someone says not to and post a new pic.

sandfisher
 
You can gently remove the oxidation on the sides of the bullet, but just realize you are NOT dealing with a rare artifact.
 
Bullet is cleaned. Since it isn't old I wasn't gentle on cleaning. Although a little rougher than I would have liked. i just wasn't patient enough Oh well!
I don't see any marks on it and I did clamp down a little harder than I should have with the vice grips. So it isn't round any more.
Definitely copper. What I do see is on the edge along the bottom a ridge where I guess it fit into the casing

sandfisher
 

Attachments

  • PB220082.jpg
    PB220082.jpg
    140.2 KB · Views: 287
  • PB220083.jpg
    PB220083.jpg
    110 KB · Views: 285
  • PB220084.jpg
    PB220084.jpg
    97 KB · Views: 259
Thank you for your help.
I learned alot from this discussion and now know what to look for on the next bullet I dig.
And I'm sure I will as this park, about a decade or so ago, had a not so nice reputation as did the people that hung out there.
Very educational post.

sandfisher
 
Way back in 1966 I purchased a World War II surplus M1911A1 .45 Auto made by the Ithaca Gun Company. It cost me a grand total of $50.00 bucks, but it was in almost new condition. First and foremost, it was "as loose as a goose," You could shake it and it would rattle-but the accuracy wasn't all good nor was it all that bad.

My brother was going to medical school at Emory in the outskirts of Atlanta. He and his room mate lived in a crime ridden section of Decatur, GA. I gave that .45 Auto to my brother because he was afraid to not be armed in the neighbourhood he lived in. I used to kid him: "Geeze, you could shoot someone that tries to rob you, and then you could practice your "doctoring" on them while you awaited for the cops and ambulance to arrive."

Then a few years later saved my Sheckels and purchased a genuine Colt Commander .45 Auto. I dropped it off by a gunsmith that had just retired out of the U.S.Navy. He had been an armourer in the Navy, building "Match" .45 Autos for the Navy's Pistol Team.

To make a long story short, he installed a brand new "Match" barrel in it, a "Match" barrel bushing and gave the internal parts a "Tune Up." When he finished, using a "Weaver Stance" I could hit 7 or 8 (out of 10) empty Coca Cola cans at 50 yards. Anyway, I have traded away both of those .45 Autos long ago.

Years ago my oldest son purchased and started carrying a Glock. I told him: "IF the Good Lord had meant for people to carry plastic pistols around, then John M. Browning would have designed a plastic pistol."
 
Back
Top