1. Welcome to the CivilWarTalk, a forum for questions and discussions about the American Civil War! Become a member today for full access to all of our resources, it's fast, simple, and absolutely free! If you aren't ready for that, try posting your question or comment as a guest!

Euroarms

Discussion in 'Civil War Weapons and Ammunition' started by Craig L Barry, Jan 17, 2011.

  1. Craig L Barry

    Craig L Barry First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,334
    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    Rumor is that D. Pedersoli has purchased Euroarms, Italia SrL.
    Euroarms of America has closed its doors. In the short run, it
    means no Euroarms rifles and muskets will be available beyond
    what is in dealer inventories.

    In the long run, it could mean a revitalized product line with
    additional US Civil War muskets from Pedersoli.
     

  2. (Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)
  3. Old Hickory

    Old Hickory First Sergeant

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,448
    Location:
    Enders, Pa.
    I'm guessing it can only get better.
     
  4. Craig L Barry

    Craig L Barry First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,334
    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    Actually, the most immediate result will be that the sudden reduction in supply
    will cause a sharp rise in prices. If Pedersoli re-introduces the Euroarms line, or
    sells it through their network of US distributors, it will likely be at their pricing structure
    not the EoA (Euroarms of America) model. You are hard pressed to find a Pedersoli
    Civil War musket for less than $1,000.

    Hence, if you were thinking of investing in a new musket or just joining
    the hobby, right now would be a good time to purchase that piece of equipment.
     
  5. Old Hickory

    Old Hickory First Sergeant

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,448
    Location:
    Enders, Pa.
    Craig, all I know about re-pops is what I read from you guys. Euroarms=bad...Pedersoli=good, or at least better.
     
  6. Me-109 Jagdfleiger

    Me-109 Jagdfleiger Cadet

    Joined:
    May 20, 2009
    Messages:
    280
    Location:
    Rapid City, SD/ Crookston, MN
    I like my Euroarms Enfield and glad I picked it up, It shoots great and is a head turner. If Pedersoli starts selling them now I bet they will be no where near their current price of ~$500, As craig said they will probably be at Pedersoli's price range of ~$1,000.
     
  7. Craig L Barry

    Craig L Barry First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,334
    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    Well it is mostly Armi Sport and Euroarms in the US Civil War reproduction market.
    Pedersoli primarily caters to European customers with a line which is heavy in BP target
    rifles and flintlocks. They offer comparatively few US Civil War products which are
    50% to 75% more expensive (at least) compared to Armi Sport and Euroarms.

    You know, it is not so much that they are "bad" as much as "they could be better."
    And at little to no cost. Euroarms promised to make corrections to their Enfield, which
    is not that bad, back in 1993 when then Watchdog Assoc Editor Geoff Walden
    discussed what needed to be done with them. Never happened. In fact, in some
    circles Euroarms were considered to be "a little nicer musket for a little more money."
    This was certainly true of their US Model 1861 (vs Armi Sport).

    However, Euroarms never offered a bayonet that would fit their oddly tapered barrels, or
    re-designed the muzzle so a bayonet would fit despite the fact that nearly 90%
    of their customers needed a bayonet. They were overly heavy, weighing in at
    over 10 lbs, mostly due to the barrels. The company introduced no new
    products in the last twenty years. The word around the campfire is the enterprise
    started in 1960 by L. Amali was upon retirement handed over to son Paolo Amali.
    Paolo liked chasing snow bunnies on the ski slopes of Europe more than producing
    reproduction firearms. Dad finally came in and pulled the plug.

    Good economics lesson here. Ignore the wants and needs of your customers, produce
    second place products in a two horse race, and lose your business.
     
  8. Old Hickory

    Old Hickory First Sergeant

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,448
    Location:
    Enders, Pa.
    Craig, I just hope this doesn't affect the price of originals, (from a buyer's stand point). I can see you guys concern now that I think about it, getting young people into re-enacting and skirmishing will be more difficult due to the projected cost of a musket...But it hasn't happened yet, all there is, is speculation at this point. (forgive me,I just can't get excited over Itallian re-pops)

    Has anyone bothered to check Pedersoli's prices against a like model from some one else? I tried comparing Pedersoli 1859 Sharps carbine to Armi Sport 1859 Sharps carbine and found a $200.00 price difference from the same dealer. Pedersoli-$1175.00 Armi Sport-$975.00 from "The Possible Shop" (the only dealer I could find who had both). Is there $200.00 worth of quality in the Pedersoli over the Armi Sport?

    I've seen the Pietta Smith Carbines and I thought they were pretty nice, (although the first bunch were rifled backwards). Given the looks, fit, and finish of their Smith, I would like to see Pietta jump into the musket market, and why not Uberti? Just my thoughts.
     
  9. Craig L Barry

    Craig L Barry First Sergeant

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2010
    Messages:
    1,334
    Location:
    Murfreesboro, TN
    I can't see how repro prices would impact prices of original Civil War weapons,
    it seems like a different supply & demand equation. I suppose if prices got high
    enough it might influence somebody to buy a decent original in shooting
    condition over a reproduction, though. The reason for buying a reproduction is
    that once an original weapon is lost or damaged, there goes a piece of history.
    Some events also prohibit original weapons. I know the NPS battlefield parks do
    not permit original weapons to be fired during historic weapons demos.

    As far as the Armi Sport v Pedersoli price comparison, the Sharps carbine is
    one of the highest priced products in Armi-Sport's product line while the Pedersoli
    version is priced like everything else they make ($1100-$1500). A better example
    is the US 1861 which is under $600 from Armi (and Euroarms previously) and
    $1250 from Pedersoli. Is it better? Well it was made from parts provided by
    Euroarms, how much better could it be? The finish is nicer out of the box.

    It is hard to see other gunmakers jumping into the fray. US Civil War hobby participation is
    shrinking every year--Armi Sport says they now sell more SASS and Cowboy-era arms than US
    Civil War--tooling costs for a new model are very high and profit margins (used to be) slim.
    Like I said, I think the primary beneficiaries will be the Indy/Paki gun makers who
    export low cost reproductions intended to be wallhangers but get "drilled out" here
    and sold as "reenactor muskets." The barrels are not proofed, etc. Quality varies
    from "passable" to "below any acceptable standard."
     
  10. Old Hickory

    Old Hickory First Sergeant

    Joined:
    May 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,448
    Location:
    Enders, Pa.
    As said earlier, I don't know much about re-pops, I had a zoli-zooie back in the 70's when I started skirmishing and 2 matches with that was enough for me to buy an original 1863 Springfield. Other than that, a Parker-Hale musketoon was about it for me. I didn't even know Pedersoli had an 1861 Springfield in their catalog. I have seen some re-pops turn into pretty good shooters once they're properly bedded, and the internal lock components replaced with good quality parts and stoned to provide a decient trigger pull...And sometimes not. I remember one fellow who bought a Euroarms Cook And Brother musketoon with a pre-pitted bore that proved absolutly worthless as a skirmish arm and was all but impossible to clean. I never considered re-pops to be finished guns suitable for shooting, rather kits that require quite a bit of work and some quality internal parts to make them into shooters.

    johan keeps cheering the quality of the Armi Sport 1842 muskets. Ever wonder why they're built better than your average Springfield/Enfield?..The N-SSA small arms commitie is why. Smooth bore competition is fairly new in the N-SSA and the SAC laid down some rather strict guide lines for the manufacturers, (and skirmishers) to follow if they wanted their guns to be approved for competition...And Armi Sport complied with a good product at a reasonable price, (so I understand-yeah, the sight is steel rather than brass, but even I can live with that and it's a cheep fix if it bothers you). Unfortunately, the P53s, M1861s, etc. were approved at a lower standard many years ago and it's business as usual today.

    Are re-enactors organized to the point where they have a "national small arms commitie" that may have some clout and influance with the manufacturers?
     
  11. ref45

    ref45 Cadet

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2011
    Messages:
    4
    Location:
    Jackson, Michigan
    I have an 1858 New Model Army Remington by Euroarms that I bought new in 1970 or '71 and have no idea how many hundreds of rounds I have fired through it. Still tight and the finish is still like new(almost). Too bad they have closed their doors and I agree, if Pedersoli does re-introduce their lines you can almost bet the prices will go up.
     
  12. Jobe Holiday

    Jobe Holiday Corporal

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    433
    Location:
    The Perpetually Frozen North
    Unfortunately the closing of Euroarms has effectively put James River Armory out of the Civil War arms manufacturing business, too.

    Jobe
     

(Membership has it privileges! To remove this ad: Register NOW!)

Share This Page