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"Creeping Artillery Barrage" save the day at Gettysburg..?

Discussion in '"What if..." Discussions' started by 5fish, Oct 21, 2009.

  1. Nathanb1

    Nathanb1 Brigadier General Moderator Forum Host

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    It's a "what if".....get a grip. I've said before, if you don't like "what if-ing" then don't look at these threads. Everyone feel free to discuss at will. Unless you happen to be Porter Alexander or Henry Hunt arisen from the dead, try to be at least semi-courteous.
     

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  3. BillO

    BillO 1st Lieutenant

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    " If I considered you any sort of a man I would slap your jaws and cause you to resent it"
     
  4. davepi2

    davepi2 Private

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    it should be remembered that the same general who was the driving force of the the rolling barage at amians was also one of the designers of the battle of the somme. Pity it took another year and millions more lives to figure out how to break the stalemate.
     
  5. ole

    ole Brev. Brig. Gen'l Retired Moderator

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    The rolling barrage at Amians had the advantage of French 75s that didn't jump back 6 feet at every discharge.
     
  6. prroh

    prroh Captain

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    For the record guys, it is spelled Amiens
     
  7. Republican Blues

    Republican Blues Sergeant Major

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    Lads,

    This map shows the planning required for the creeping or walking barrage at Passchendaele. One can see that the minute increments required, and the timing was crucial. This fire plan was developed for over 3,000 British guns both 18 pounders and heavy guns, with the artillery advancing fire 100yds every 4 minutes and the infantry maintaining a 50 yard buffer. Fire Support Coordination called for one 18 pounder for every 15 yds of front, and a heavy howitzer (9.2 inch at least) for every 50 yds. As objectives were taken the artillery would stop 500 yds beyond and work back and forth, adding or dropping for range to keep the Germans from counter attacking.

    First_Battle_of_Passchendaele_-_barrage_map_(colour_balance).jpg

    now lets compare the guns

    Quick Fife18 Pounder

    Elevation in degrees -5 to 37

    9.2inch Howitzer

    Elevation in degrees 15 to 55
     
  8. Republican Blues

    Republican Blues Sergeant Major

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    or as we have come to say in the modern army... he got tapped by the "Good Idea Fairy"
     
  9. Republican Blues

    Republican Blues Sergeant Major

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    Variables based on recoil...

    Note the distance of recoil on 8 oz of powder not the full 2 lb service load

    orignal WW1 footage of the Ordnance Quick Fire 18 Pounder note very little displacement

    9.2inch BL Howitzer.... NO displacement

    French 75

    the accuracy of the later three is what made the Creeping or Walking Barrage possible.

    *WARNING FOUL LANGUAGE* and just for fun, a modern M119


    and the M198
     
  10. 1stSgt E

    1stSgt E Cadet

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    Good stuff!!! Thanks!

    My Howitzer has been known to have a foot of recoil on a 6oz blank charge.
     
  11. Borderruffian

    Borderruffian 2nd Lieutenant

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    Since I'll always be an 0341 at heart check this stuff out.

     
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  12. LT.J.H.McDaniel

    LT.J.H.McDaniel Sergeant Major

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    Good ideas start with a full glass...
     
  13. Borderruffian

    Borderruffian 2nd Lieutenant

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    Of Bourbon in many cases.
     
  14. samgrant

    samgrant Captain Retired Moderator

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    After the initial barrage they were too short on ammo to do such a thing.
     
  15. DaveBrt

    DaveBrt Corporal

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    The purpose of a creeping barrage was to keep shells on the lines of defence as the troops approached them. It was a tactic designed to handle multiple trench lines and defended zones. In the CW, the defended zone was very small -- two ranks of men. The Civil War artilleryman was trying to put every round into the thin blue or gray line of troops -- there was no need to walk a barrage through an area several hundred yards deep. Also, a significant percentage of the Civil War artillery fire was non-explosive round shot; every round used in WWI barrages was explosive.
     
  16. whitworth

    whitworth 2nd Lieutenant

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    Can't change the incompetency

    Of course, the Confederacy had a poor artillery arm. It certainly showed up at Gettysburg and there is no changing it, and "gaining" victory. The Confederacy never had the artillery supplies to practice other than in real firings, unlike Federal artillery units. It overfired the main line of the Union on Cemetery Ridge, only forcing some reserve to withdraw in the rear. It overfired so badly, the entire artillery of Lt. Col. Freeman McGilvery, a highly competent unit, was entirely forgotten. It was as if all artillery was forgotten and none was there for the Union to meet Pickett's Charge.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeman_McGilvery
     
  17. Republican Blues

    Republican Blues Sergeant Major

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    Like you sir, I'll always be a Redleg at heart......why is blood red? God Loves Artillerymen!!
     

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