Are These Confederates? or?

CivilWarParlor

Private
Joined
Dec 22, 2012
Location
California
33254082_1_l.jpg

What is the John Quincy Adams Collection? And are these really Confederates? early war? during the war? post war? or VMI cadets? Any guesses?

https://new.liveauctioneers.com/item/33254082_tintype-confederate-soldiers-horseback-and-city

Tintype Of Confederate Soldiers On Horseback- From the John Quincy Adams collection comes a fine sixthplate tintype (2½" by 3½) of Confederate soldiers on horseback carrying rifles with bayonets pointed upwards and a city in the background.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
They're both wearing kepis, not forage caps, which is unusual. French cavalry also used crossed swords cap insignia.The overcoats don't look like standard U.S. Army issue, the cuff and buttons are wrong. The rider on the left appears to have the skirt buttoned back giving a cut-away appearance, like a French soldier. The buildings in the back ground on the left have a French style roof line.
I think they're French.
 
Last edited:
They're both wearing kepis, not forage caps, which is unusual. French cavalry also used crossed swords cap insignia.The overcoats don't look like standard U.S. Army issue, the cuff and buttons are wrong. The rider on the left appears to have the skirt buttoned back giving a cut-away appearance, like a French soldier. The buildings in the back ground on the left have a French style roof line.
I think they're French.

Thanks, people on facebook are saying the same..
 
I go with French. Those pig sticker bayonets look like something that goes well on a needle gun era firearm and I have neither seen nor heard of Civil War cavalry (or even mounted infantry) carrying infantry muskets with bayonets attached. Those buildings in the background, with the mansard design, look as French as a baguette wrapped in a tricolor on the 14th of July. I go with the Franco Prussian War, 1870. Where did the notion that it is a US Civil War photograph?
 
I go with French. Those pig sticker bayonets look like something that goes well on a needle gun era firearm and I have neither seen nor heard of Civil War cavalry (or even mounted infantry) carrying infantry muskets with bayonets attached. Those buildings in the background, with the mansard design, look as French as a baguette wrapped in a tricolor on the 14th of July. I go with the Franco Prussian War, 1870. Where did the notion that it is a US Civil War photograph?


Thanks, I really wish there was info...the top of the photo had something written, but of course we can't see it.
 
I dont think those are muskets with bayonets at all.
Those look like swords half in shadow.

Also the guy on our right has what may be a carbine there along his thigh thats facing us. It looks like a barrel band right there.
 
I have looked long and hard at this photo. It screams Europe. Look again at the buildings, the Mansard design, common in Second empire France but not yet common in the US except in Boston, with a few such building in NYC but not likely a place for armed Confederates. Notice the cobble stoned, narrow streets, with stone curbs, common in large European cities, not so much in American cities, especially Southern ones. And again, bayonets fixed to muskets carried by horse soldiers seems out of place for Civil war America. I still think France, 1870, Franco Prussian war. Please do tell us what you find when you get your results back.
 
I dont think those are muskets with bayonets at all.
Those look like swords half in shadow.

Also the guy on our right has what may be a carbine there along his thigh that's facing us. It looks like a barrel band right there.
It's amazing at how two people can look at the same thing and reach different conclusions. The weapon on the soldier on the right seems be too long to be a saber and on his right side it appears to me to be the bayonet scabbard.
 
The horses do not look like anything the Union officers rode. They mostly had Morgan horses. These poor horses look ill fed, which would scream Confederate. However the bridle does not look American. These men look German. Are they Hession?
 
Does the style of roadway tell us anything? Looks like cobblestone. Was this type of road and raised sidewalk common in the US?
Cobblestone streets were all over the Atlantic coastal cities, like Charleston, Savannah. Ballast stones from European sailing vessels were unloaded on our shores, and those were used to build streets walls, houses.
 
Nothing in the image has tell-tale evidence it being from the ACW...
Observations....
- Both appear to be holding sabers, lower part is in a shadow, and notice the blade is curved like cavalry sabers would be. They are both holding them in proper fashion as a saber would be held. (image is reversed)
- Overcoats are not of the typical ACW patterns... the collar & cape is different and the coats lack the cuffs found on ACW types.
- Horse hardware; nothing present is similar to what is normally found in the US at the time. The X strap horse headstall was a common European style pattern typically found in French and Prussian use.
- Photo medium; This is what is sometimes referred to as a "Chocolate Tintype" due to the brownish hue to the image, as the photographic process evolved and changed over time. These so-called "Chocolate" tintypes did not come around till the 1870's...
Impression; Most likely French Cavalry circa 1870-80's
 
Back
Top