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About the SCV salute to the Confederate flag...

Discussion in 'Campfire Chat - General Discussions' started by Red Harvest, Dec 4, 2012.

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  1. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest 2nd Lieutenant Trivia Game Winner

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    It isn't clear to me what the SCV is advocating with such a salute. I seriously doubt it is pining for a return to slavery, but that is the source of the cause.

    This dates back to what, 1906? Pre-civil rights era. Slavery was gone, but the 14th and 15th Amendments were being trampled on by Confederates and their sons. So what was the "cause" they were pledging undying devotion to? The usage given in the salute has the characteristics of a dog whistle, even today.

    Of course, such usages are intentionally vague so that each can see in it...or claim to others that they see in it entirely different things. But if you take the salute at face value, it is an endorsement of the Confederate cause with all the baggage that entails.

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  3. CSA Today

    CSA Today Major

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    Why did you leave out the First National Flag (Stars and Bars)?

    "I salute the Confederate Flag with affection, reverence
    and undying devotion to the Cause for which it stands."

    The Sons of Confederate Veterans Salute
    to the Confederate Flag
  4. CSA Today

    CSA Today Major

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    If you want to go that route, you could just as easily say that a pledge to the US flag also was an endorsement with all the baggage that entails.

    “They made us many promises, more than I can remember, but they kept only one; they promised to take our land, and they did.”
    Red Cloud, Oglala Sioux
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  5. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest 2nd Lieutenant Trivia Game Winner

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    Some do. Some omit specific words...like those added during the Cold War. I don't have a problem with it as it is a pledge to the "Republic for which it stands" not "undying devotion" to a discredited "cause" built around the notion of perpetual racial inequality and bondage.
  6. unionblue

    unionblue Brev. Brig. Gen'l

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    CSA Today and Red Harvest,

    With utmost sincerity,

    (YAWN!)

    Sincerely,
    Unionblue
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  7. gem

    gem First Sergeant

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    what's the 'cause' that is being referred to in the pledge? I don't know what the 'cause' refers to?
  8. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest 2nd Lieutenant Trivia Game Winner

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    Funny, I have the same reaction to many of your posts.

    Sincerely,

    Red
  9. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest 2nd Lieutenant Trivia Game Winner

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    Since it's a Confederate flag one would assume it would be to the Confederate cause. CSA Today stated as much.

    There have been several other possibilities given by others, including preserving the history of ancestors or to whatever it was the individuals fought for (rather than "the cause.") However, there haven't been that many SCV members willing to state what the specific cause is they are saluting (or not saluting if omitted.)
  10. CSA Today

    CSA Today Major

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    Many SCV members object to the one nation indivisible line in the US pledge, and I understand that there are those (not necessarily SCV members) who object to the one nation under God part. Then there are those who get their drawers in a wad over the SCV salute – they would likely get apoplectic over some of the other things members might say. I’m not sure unionblue’s patented yawn is the answer, but the solution might be to salute/pledge to what you feel comfortable with and ignore what you don’t. You are not going to change any minds since folks with strong opinions don’t give a rat’s rear what distracters think in the first place.

    "I salute the Confederate Flag with affection, reverence
    and undying devotion to the Cause for which it stands."

    The Sons of Confederate Veterans Salute
    to the Confederate Flag
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  11. gem

    gem First Sergeant

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    why won't people say what the 'cause' is that they are pledging too? or is it that the 'cause' is purposely left vague enough so it means different things to different people?
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  12. CSA Today

    CSA Today Major

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    "To you, Sons of Confederate Veterans, we submit the vindication of the Cause for which we fought; to your strength will be given the defense of the Confederate soldier's good name, the guardianship of his history, the emulation of his virtues, the perpetuation of those principles he loved and which made him glorious and which you also cherish. Remember, it is your duty to see that the true history of the South is presented to future generations."

    Lt. Gen. Stephen D. Lee, Commander General, United Confederate Veterans, 1906
  13. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest 2nd Lieutenant Trivia Game Winner

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    I've been tempted to call it a Rorschach test.
  14. gem

    gem First Sergeant

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    From what i'm read, i don't think people, at least not in a unanimous way, know what the 'cause' is that they are pledging too.

    Thus its probably best to let this thread fall off.
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  15. CSA Today

    CSA Today Major

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    Maybe it’s a sinister SCV ploy to keep gullible Yankees mystified. :sneaky:

    "To you, Sons of Confederate Veterans, we submit the vindication of the Cause for which we fought; to your strength will be given the defense of the Confederate soldier's good name, the guardianship of his history, the emulation of his virtues, the perpetuation of those principles he loved and which made him glorious and which you also cherish. Remember, it is your duty to see that the true history of the South is presented to future generations."

    Lt. Gen. Stephen D. Lee, Commander General, United Confederate Veterans, 1906
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  16. gem

    gem First Sergeant

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    you're certainly keeping me mystified, alright.
  17. unionblue

    unionblue Brev. Brig. Gen'l

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    Then you can understand my frustration at the posting of nonissue threads merely for the sake of starting an argument vice any learning about history, such as this one.

    Sincerely,
    Unionblue
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  18. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest 2nd Lieutenant Trivia Game Winner

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    No, actually I don't understand you. And if you don't care for the thread, don't participate in it. Seems like you are the one itching for an argument.

    There is actually an issue here worth some discussion. I asked for SCV members to comment and instead you rambled on. (This is something I've noticed you do frequently to try to stifle discussion when you don't like the question being asked.) I'm curious as to how they approach the Cause portion of the salute. What do they consider that cause to be?
  19. unionblue

    unionblue Brev. Brig. Gen'l

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    There are, as I understand it, currently 30,000 members of the SCV.

    Of the members I have come to know and converse with, their primary goal is to preserve the memory of the Confederate soldier, through mainly maintaining and preserving their final resting places.

    There are a few who indulge in a modern-day political agenda and who also attempt to twist history to suit that agenda. Their doing so does not detract from the effort of preservation that the majority of the membership, which, in effect, is their 'Cause' no matter what the pledge means to them. 30,000 members, even with a few sour apples, does not add up to a major worry or a threat to the preservation of actual history, no matter how "they approach the Cause portion of the salute."

    You say you don't understand me. Fine, let me make myself clear.

    I care about the thread which is why I am participating in it. I care because it comes across as a mere excuse to argue, to gain some sort of high moral ground on which to grind a bit more about a 'Cause' long gone and defeated and which has no longer any sort of meaning you allude to by the current SCV membership. To me, it seems like you are setting a stage for an easy victory for yourself, with yourself as judge, jury and victor.

    Not one member of the SCV that I have come to know advocates slavery, the return of slavery nor rebellion against the United States of America or advocates the return of the Confederacy nor a modern-day secession movement.

    You're fishing for a fight for no reason other than to have a fight which benefits no one here. IMO.

    Sincerely,
    Unionblue
  20. tmh10

    tmh10 Major

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    I say we settle this in the parking lot of the 7/11 at midnite. I will be the referee.:smile coffee:
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  21. Red Harvest

    Red Harvest 2nd Lieutenant Trivia Game Winner

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    Well, UB you are incorrect in your assumptions. It was and is an honest question. I thought we were allowed to ask those, but you have set yourself up as judge and jury on this. What you think, I really don't care. I didn't expect anything enlightening or useful from you on the matter and so far have not been disappointed in that estimate.

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