GRAPHIC 3 Antietam views-then and now

kholland

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Retired Moderator
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Location
Howard County, Maryland
AntietamDunkerChurchThenNow.jpg
Dunker Church​



AntietamHagerstownPikeThenNow.jpg

Hagerstown Pike​

AntietamSunkenRoadThenNow.jpg

Sunken Road​

http://yourehistory.wordpress.com/2008/07/25/civil-war-sites-then-and-now/
 
Respectfully, I believe the origination of the modern Hagerstown Pike image is incorrect. The historic image is taken from inside the fence, looking south, as opposed to outside the fence, looking north. The actual pike is visible in the historic image at far right, through the rails of the fence, with the rail fence on the other side of the pike also visible. What's taken for the pike in the historic image is a cart track along the edge of the field. The dead here are Confederate troops, including some from the 4th Texas, who were swung left at the last moment to protect the flank of the Texas Brigade's advance into the Cornfield, which would be behind the photographer. High-res version here.
 
Respectfully, I believe the origination of the modern Hagerstown Pike image is incorrect. The historic image is taken from inside the fence, looking south, as opposed to outside the fence, looking north. The actual pike is visible in the historic image at far right, through the rails of the fence, with the rail fence on the other side of the pike also visible. What's taken for the pike in the historic image is a cart track along the edge of the field. The dead here are Confederate troops, including some from the 4th Texas, who were swung left at the last moment to protect the flank of the Texas Brigade's advance into the Cornfield, which would be behind the photographer. High-res version here.

I agree with Andy. There is actually a wayside on the battlefield at the location where this photo was taken. It is further north on the pike from the modern photo shown in this thread, near the intersection of Cornfield Ave. and Hagerstown Pike.
 
Andy's right but not entirely. The historic photo is taken looking NORTH on the WEST side of a fence that was on the WEST side of the Hagerstown Pike but is no longer there. In other words, take the modern photo above, lift up the fence, the road and the ground in between, and move it all to the left side of the road in the modern photo (which is the old Hagerstown Pike).

Also, the old photo was taken farther north than the modern photo here assumes. The house in the modern photo was not there in 1862 - the historic photo was taken approximately due west of where the house now stands.

I don't think the Sunken Road photo is right, either. In the modern photo we see a group of people and a ranger vehicle in the background. The bodies in the old photo, I believe, were lying about there, and the old photo is the reverse in angle of the new one (the new photo looks north, the old one looks south).

The Dunker Church photo is pretty good, tho I would move the camera about 50 yards to the right to get the proper angle. The modern cannon are not exactly where the historic cannon were.
 
After looking a Frassanito's "Modern" photos, I agree with the last 3 posters about the Hagerstown Pike and Sunken road photos. I would scan and post them but that might be a copyright infringement. That said, I must admit that kholland did a better job than I would've done.
 
i believe i need to agree with the ammendments,but an a+ for effort is in order.i cant wait to be up there in a coupla weeks,for 150.does anyone know how difficult it is to get access to nicodemus hgts and hausers ridge?i dearly wanna walk up there.
 
I've heard that Nicodemus Heights is privately owned. Not sure about Hauser's Ridge.
i pretty much understand that too,but have heard that permission to walk up there can be gotten.just wonder if i can go and knock on the door.well when i am there perhaps a reenactor or two can point me in the right direction.too bad you wont be there. i would love to have a face to face about the battle with you. rgrds.keith
 
Andy's right but not entirely. The historic photo is taken looking NORTH on the WEST side of a fence that was on the WEST side of the Hagerstown Pike but is no longer there. In other words, take the modern photo above, lift up the fence, the road and the ground in between, and move it all to the left side of the road in the modern photo (which is the old Hagerstown Pike).

Also, the old photo was taken farther north than the modern photo here assumes. The house in the modern photo was not there in 1862 - the historic photo was taken approximately due west of where the house now stands.

I don't think the Sunken Road photo is right, either. In the modern photo we see a group of people and a ranger vehicle in the background. The bodies in the old photo, I believe, were lying about there, and the old photo is the reverse in angle of the new one (the new photo looks north, the old one looks south).

The Dunker Church photo is pretty good, tho I would move the camera about 50 yards to the right to get the proper angle. The modern cannon are not exactly where the historic cannon were.
Frassanito's Study on pp. 126-127 supports this.

Thaks for posting, KHollland; as a tramper of battlefield, but inexperienced in photography, I find the linking of the two fascinating, with much to offer in terms of enhancing our understanding of the history.
 
It's amazing to stand where such carnage happened.
CW battlefields, WW1 and 2 battle fields.
All so peace full and beautiful now,, but to stand there in person and imagin the horror.
 
My understanding of the Hagerstown Pike picture is that the dead were from Starke's Brigade who were driven across the Pike and west into the West Woods by elements of the Iron Brigade (driven from right to left in the picture).

R
 
This link to Bruce Shultz's Civil War Album shows where the "Then and Now" Gardner picture along the Hagerstown Pike is located. The specific pictures are at the bottom of the page maked (9-12) There is also a marker along the side of the Pike at the exact site. I took these pictures a few weeks ago at the 150th reunion and used Frassanito's books as a guide.
The Civil War album has a large array of excellent Civil War pictures including the recent reenactment at Antietam last month.

http://www.civilwaralbum.com/antietam/tour4.htm
 
It is so easy to become desensitized to images of the battlefield dead of the Civil War. I think black and white photography contributes to it; also, overall photographic quality contributes to it. Putting aside the accuracy issues, these comparisons are re-sensitizing for me - placing the historical places in contemporary context emphasizes how inconceivable it would be to see the same scenes today on US soil.

It has a parallel to me in the way that, because of the exposure requirements of CW era photography, smiling in a photograph was somewhat impractical, and so our ancestors all seem so terribly severe and humorless.

It also occurs to me that as visually horrifying and spectacular the images of the destruction of the WTC are (with a barely comparable loss of life to many individual battles in the CW) there were no photographs of the remains of victims arrayed in the way we see the battlefield dead. Only intended as an observation about the visual aspects of the two situations, not as any sort of historical or moral statement, etc.
 
While I would agree with you regarding the gruesomeness of the Civil War pictures, I would respectfully disagree with your comparison with the WTC. As a survivor of the 9/11 attack at the WTC, I believe the absence of remains made the event no less horrific than those where the remains could be readily seen but perhaps even more horrifying due tot he lack of any remains. I attended many memorials without a casket which, in itself, was unique.
I have included a link to the 9/11 Museum which has pictures of the event (including mine) and leave it to the reader to determine the extend these pictures are horrifying.

http://makehistory.national911memorial.org/
 
While I would agree with you regarding the gruesomeness of the Civil War pictures, I would respectfully disagree with your comparison with the WTC. As a survivor of the 9/11 attack at the WTC, I believe the absence of remains made the event no less horrific than those where the remains could be readily seen but perhaps even more horrifying due tot he lack of any remains. I attended many memorials without a casket which, in itself, was unique.
I have included a link to the 9/11 Museum which has pictures of the event (including mine) and leave it to the reader to determine the extend these pictures are horrifying.

http://makehistory.national911memorial.org/

I didn't say either the events or visual imagery of the WTC attack was less horrifying. I was only pointing to a difference between them.

On the contrary, I think the visual imagery of the WTC was, as I said above, spectacularly horrifying, in so many respects. And while I do find Civil War images, my whole point was that the horror is partly lost by the 19th c. quality and character of the photographs, and so in that sense I was saying that CW images don't tend to horrify me as much as they should, while I am quite horrified by the WTC imagery.

Can you provide direct links to your photos - I'd really be interested to see them?

I was in Brooklyn that day - I heard the first impact while walking my dogs in Prospect Park, and could see smoke from the fires walking home to my apt. on Union Ave - alternated watching events unfold from my rooftop and on CNN. Later that evening was horrified to see the long line of survivors coming up Flatbush Avenue, walking through Grand Army Plaza and the Soldiers and Sailors Arch. The poignancy of seeing ash-covered people walking around that beautiful monument to the Defenders of the Union brings shivers to me even today.

For those who don't know the monument: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldiers'_and_Sailors'_Arch
 
Sure. Best way is to go to the 9/11 website on the link. Type my name "Alan Di Sciullo" in upper right hand side and press go. My office was on the 65th floor of 2WTC (Morgan Stanley) and I was in the street when the towers fell which I was able to capture in pictures.
 
Sure. Best way is to go to the 9/11 website on the link. Type my name "Alan Di Sciullo" in upper right hand side and press go. My office was on the 65th floor of 2WTC (Morgan Stanley) and I was in the street when the towers fell which I was able to capture in pictures.

Those are some amazing images. Glad you're here to have this conversation.
 
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