The Wentz Farmhouse, Split Wide Open July 1, 1863

JPK Huson 1863

Brev. Brig. Gen'l
Joined
Feb 14, 2012
Location
Central Pennsylvania
gb wentz farm cropped edges.JPG

The Wentz Farmhouse, according to the Ebay seller.

It doesn't seem to have survived. The split, I mean- another family story of losing each other in a conflict so appalling blood became thin as air, vanquishing generational ties.

Another Ebay find, it appears to not be a fake? You DO never know- on the back is written " Emmitsburg Road, Gettysburg ". Photo is of predictably shaped, Pennsylvania farmhouse, a farm family posed on doorstep. Their dress seems close to era, just post, perhaps? One shattered pane and windows seemingly with curtains tightly drawn or ( paper blocking them ) seem to verify a report I bumped into stating the house miraculously escaped major damage.

Also linking a CWT thread, thankfully there's a discussion on the Wentz family. There is someone who had done research on a son reported to have marched into town with Longstreet- so this is an awfully significant home. We hear much of Culp's Hill and Wesley, coming home to die there wearing gray. Another boy who remained hundreds of miles away in his own house was named Wentz.

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/the-henry-wentz-mystery.119362/

Easy enough, marking fighting in and around here. Here's part of a Sneden map from Day 2.
gb wentz house day 2 sneden.JPG

GB WENTZ FARM2.jpg


GB WENTZ FARM2a.jpg

The original, before I put shadows in there-

gb wentz farm group.jpg

The thing is, the original couple were 70 years old. Perhaps one of the men, by the gate on left could be? And one woman on the steps could also be- rest must be the children and grandchildren. I see one pane of glass broken, another maybe covered with a board.
gb wentz foundations.JPG

Foundations only, left of original home.

http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=29c43d87-f9c4-4920-9bee-98951814937c&gid=3

gb wentz from book 1.JPG

VERY short blurb, from the linked book- as we look at the house's foundation, it always feels a little crazy we cannot hear all echoes of the past.
 
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Fascinating! I've never seen the actual house before. It might be confirmed by facing east in front of the foundation and matching the apparent elevated ground shown in the distance (Cemetery Ridge/slope of Little Round Top).

By the way, Sneden's map fairly accurately depicts the split of Barksdale's brigade very close to the house, the line labeled "Hood's Charge" presumably reflecting the 21st Mississippi advance toward the Trostle buildings, and the other arrow being the remaining three regiments of the brigade advancing in a northerly direction. However, the 21st passed south of the Wentz house.
 
The Sneden map appears to show the Wentz farmhouse farther east than where the foundation's ruins are located in the picture along the modern Emmitsburg Road. It also shows the Sherfy House on the eastern side of Emmitsburg Road.

Has the modern road location changed from the historical road location as shown on the Sneden map?
 
Not to be an ***, but the building in the pic looks larger than the footprint. The door and windows are a little over 3 feet wide, the space between about 4. Thats almost 30 feet. The footprint looks much smaller. I am going to Gburg in a few days. Remember to bring your tape measure Rick.
I have read that the house was small.
 
Ah! Interesting! Another Wentz family on Emmitsburg Road? Looking at the seller pretty carefully, did not seem to be another " Lincoln post-mortem photo " photograph set up. You know, a famous name sold for the sake of a ruse.

This house, while not one story, is also not at all large, my goodness. Look at windows and door- they take up a large amount of frontage. This is still a small house. I missed when it was demolished- was it immediately post-battle or some time afterwards? Who knows, like Lincoln's home in Springfield, could have had a second story added at some point.

There's a very small home on Emmitsburg Road, where Reynold's body was carried to, seem to remember that being one story and small. Wonder if the original Wentz home looked similar.
 
On the left of the house, is that a hill that comes up to the bottom of the second-story windows? If so, it can't be the Wentz house that we're thinking of. Both Roundtops would be to the right and much lower from that position. If the photo is really taken from Emittsburg Road, it could only be BRT if the house were much further south - around the Bushman/Slyder houses or further.
 
Ah! Interesting! Another Wentz family on Emmitsburg Road? ...There's a very small home on Emmitsburg Road, where Reynold's body was carried to, seem to remember that being one story and small. Wonder if the original Wentz home looked similar.

Another Wentz family sounds like a good possibility, @JPK Huson 1863, considering how it seems that family members often lived near one another. (For instance, I'm thinking of three different Spangler farms associated with the battle.) Would census records before and after the battle suggest any clues? Also, you're correct about the house where John Reynolds died. It is a small, one-story building.
 
For surnames that are phonetically similar to "Wentz"…

The 1860 Census of Gettysburg has only one household (#374, enumerated after George Little and before Bryan Gorgon):
Henry Wantz (farmer), W/M, age 48, born in PA
Clara (Clarissa A.) Wantz, W/F, age 48, born in MD
Elizabeth S. Wantz, W/F, age 12, born in MD
Mary J. Wantz, W/F, age 7, born in MD
Marie Ross (domestic), W/F, age 35, born in MD

The 1860 Census of Cumberland Township has only one household (#547, immediately after Joseph Sherfy's family):
John Wantz, W/M, age 73, born in PA
Mary Wantz, W/F, age 72, born in PA
Susannah Wantz, W/F, age 24, born in PA

-Bob
 
The only reason to think that it is a Wentz house is that, according to the eBay seller, an unnamed "historian at Gettysburg National Military Park preliminarily attributed this as the Wentz House near Peach Orchard." Sounds iffy to me. I'd ask him to identify the "historian." I've been told that there are no known photos of the Wentz house. Asking for $15k (!), the eBay seller is highly-motivated to say otherwise.

If someone had a photo that could be proved to be of the John Wentz house, someone might pay that much for it.
 
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That map has the house's location wrong. At least the ruins. Are in the corner of Emmitsburg and Wheatfield. That's for sure, but it is kinda irrelevant.

A couple of issues:

If one compares the photo of the house on top and the position of the ruins relative to the fence, looks like the fence moved at least a good 10 feet away from the road (or that the original road was 10 feet less wide than today's on that side, when the photo was taken.) Doable, but check this one out:

sherfytenant-1943_1_2.jpg


That's the original Codori House (at a latter time) on that same side of the road and the road edge is pretty much the same distance from its front door as it is today, which means that the original Wentz house, based on the ruins was pretty much on the road, and that photo really is not it.

(And I am writing the following after I checked the price, so there is no way I am after that, but darn...)

I am willing to bet that the photo for sale is a photo of the same house above, the Codori House. Look at the shape (minus the porch,) the distance from the road to the front door (plus the fence) and the slope from the road to the front door. Plus, when I first looked at the photo, my first thought was 'what the hey the Codori House is doing in this photo?' The roof in this picture is different too, and the prospective also slightly different. making the house look "taller". You can even see those 2 trees up front match :wink: So the fence was right by that trees and the buggy was parked right about where those steps to the right path are.

That's not the Wentz House, it's the much more famous Codori House. (Seller can add another $10K now)
 
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No way!! I'm now unimpressed with the Wentz identity- and the price stuck on it because there's a name attached, but huh. IS it? Codori, I mean- if there are photos of them it would be helpful. I think it was Nick who was captured, a civilian prisoner during the battle and wasn't released until 1865, right before the war ended. Wish I could remember ,must look it up, a few returned prisoners did not live very long post war. In a war with many very sad stories, these were among the saddest.

That's crazy, if it is, thanks E!
 
If the photo is post-battle, the people pictured could be tourists. During the time of the battle, the Condoris were not living there. The house was rented to an older woman (and I assume her family.)
 
It doesn't look like the same house to me. First, the distance between the upper windows and roof are different. Second, the horizontal distance between the windows and sides of the house are different. Last are differences in the foundations, one appears uniform, the other has gaps.
 
According to Mark Hall (Beard of Knowledge), the Clark County Museum chief who is often brought on for expertise when items are brought into the Gold & Silver Pawn on Pawn Stars, this photo is NOT of the original Wentz house because the original home was of log construction and only 1 1/2 stories high. This one is a wood framed home and obviously two stories high. It still might be a home along the Emmitsburg Rd. Mock ups of the original show the house pretty much where the foundation now sits (it was torn down, rebuilt and torn down again), but it appears to have actually faced the road that crosses Emmitsburg Rd between the small Wentz farm and the peach orchard. There is supposedly a drawing of the original, but no photos. The episode with this photo being brought in for sale is #14 on the current season 14 if you want to view it to see what I'm saying.
 
According to Mark Hall (Beard of Knowledge), the Clark County Museum chief who is often brought on for expertise when items are brought into the Gold & Silver Pawn on Pawn Stars, this photo is NOT of the original Wentz house because the original home was of log construction and only 1 1/2 stories high. This one is a wood framed home and obviously two stories high. It still might be a home along the Emmitsburg Rd. Mock ups of the original show the house pretty much where the foundation now sits (it was torn down, rebuilt and torn down again), but it appears to have actually faced the road that crosses Emmitsburg Rd between the small Wentz farm and the peach orchard. There is supposedly a drawing of the original, but no photos. The episode with this photo being brought in for sale is #14 on the current season 14 if you want to view it to see what I'm saying.


Thanks so much! New sources- and information, are sincerely appreciated, read, stored like nuts for the winter and we all bore our families to sleep with them. Love this stuff- and wonder if an Ebay photo really did walk into that shop. Ebay photo more likely to be perhaps not the original, hmmmm. You see that a lot.

You know, with no irons in the fire whatsoever, no reason to question experts or writing on photos- or other Wentz farmhouses, jury is still out for me. Houses can change over time- the Lincoln's famous Springfield home was one story, log- underneath the extensive, raise-the-roof, neat-and tidy-siding, renovations Springfield's newest success as a lawyer implemented.
 
It doesn't seem to have survived. The split, I mean- another family story of losing each other in a conflict so appalling blood became thin as air, vanquishing generational ties.

Another Ebay find, it appears to not be a fake? You DO never know- on the back is written " Emmitsburg Road, Gettysburg ". Photo is of predictably shaped, Pennsylvania farmhouse, a farm family posed on doorstep. Their dress seems close to era, just post, perhaps? One shattered pane and windows seemingly with curtains tightly drawn or ( paper blocking them ) seem to verify a report I bumped into stating the house miraculously escaped major damage.

Also linking a CWT thread, thankfully there's a discussion on the Wentz family. There is someone who had done research on a son reported to have marched into town with Longstreet- so this is an awfully significant home. We hear much of Culp's Hill and Wesley, coming home to die there wearing gray. Another boy who remained hundreds of miles away in his own house was named Wentz.

http://civilwartalk.com/threads/the-henry-wentz-mystery.119362/

Easy enough, marking fighting in and around here. Here's part of a Sneden map from Day 2.
View attachment 108853

View attachment 108847
The Wentz Farmhouse, according to the Ebay seller.
View attachment 108849

View attachment 108850
The original, before I put shadows in there-

View attachment 108848
The thing is, the original couple were 70 years old. Perhaps one of the men, by the gate on left could be? And one woman on the steps could also be- rest must be the children and grandchildren. I see one pane of glass broken, another maybe covered with a board.
View attachment 108851
Foundations only, left of original home.

http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=29c43d87-f9c4-4920-9bee-98951814937c&gid=3

View attachment 108852
VERY short blurb, from the linked book- as we look at the house's foundation, it always feels a little crazy we cannot hear all echoes of the past.
Looking closely at the photo, there appears to be a large hill in the background to the right of the house. This could be Big Round Top which shows up in this google street view from the Emmitsburg Road in front of the Wentz fouindation.
wentz.jpg
 
Looking closely at the photo, there appears to be a large hill in the background to the right of the house. This could be Big Round Top which shows up in this google street view from the Emmitsburg Road in front of the Wentz fouindation.
View attachment 150602

After studying the angles, I've concluded that you are correct. It's definitely Big Round Top on the right. The slight rise on the center-right horizon is Little Round Top.
 
According to Mark Hall (Beard of Knowledge), the Clark County Museum chief who is often brought on for expertise when items are brought into the Gold & Silver Pawn on Pawn Stars, this photo is NOT of the original Wentz house because the original home was of log construction and only 1 1/2 stories high. This one is a wood framed home and obviously two stories high. It still might be a home along the Emmitsburg Rd. Mock ups of the original show the house pretty much where the foundation now sits (it was torn down, rebuilt and torn down again), but it appears to have actually faced the road that crosses Emmitsburg Rd between the small Wentz farm and the peach orchard. There is supposedly a drawing of the original, but no photos. The episode with this photo being brought in for sale is #14 on the current season 14 if you want to view it to see what I'm saying.
Welcome, enjoy
 
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