Union Gulags---Reeducation Camps

Wade was President Pro Tempore of the senate. Why would he be next in line for the presidency and not Charles Van Zandt, Speaker of the House? Constitutionally speaking, the Speaker is next after vice-president and then President Pro Tempore.
The law at the time was that President Pro Tem was next in line.
 
The law at the time was that President Pro Tem was next in line.

Yep. Which is why Lafayette S. Foster of Connecticut, President Pro Tempore of the Senate would have come the President in 1865 if the Booth assassins had gotten him as well as Lincoln. Foster was defeated for a third term in 1866, which is why the post became vacant -- but Wade might have powered his way in anyway in 1867 if Foster had been elected. I think that law dated from 1792 or so.

I haven't a clue what type of President Foster would have been -- and I doubt many other people did at the time.

Tim
 
Wade was President Pro Tempore of the senate. Why would he be next in line for the presidency and not Charles Van Zandt, Speaker of the House? Constitutionally speaking, the Speaker is next after vice-president and then President Pro Tempore.

I think that is the 25th Amendment in about 1967.

Tim
 
I've seen the comparison of the treatment of the NA to the South on many an occasion, I apologize for equating such schmucks w/ you.

I'm more than a little cheesed of by the trolling by 5Fish, the whole thread was designed & IMO intended to push buttons; and it isn't the first. I aploigize for growling at you instead of the person who deserved it.

Shane, that was a friendly reminder. It was a sustained genocide. No need for mass graves except after the hanging of 38 in Minnesota. It was an atrocity all Americans should be ashamed of.

I wasn't attempting to equate anything regarding the treatment of Indians with the post ACW South. How you pulled that one out of the air, I'd like to know.

dvrmte
 
I've seen the comparison of the treatment of the NA to the South on many an occasion, I apologize for equating such schmucks w/ you.

I'm more than a little cheesed of by the trolling by 5Fish, the whole thread was designed & IMO intended to push buttons; and it isn't the first. I aploigize for growling at you instead of the person who deserved it.

No harm, no foul. I figured someone had teed you off. I honestly wasn't trying to set you off.

It was a different time with different values. I just hate to see the Indian forgotten.

dvrmte
 
No Ya-hoos, It is for many reasons, one I want to remind us that many of these men we venerate today tried to end our nation as we know it. Two, I like to bring angst to the forum for angst bring out good debate. Third, I like to note when I joined this forum the "lost cause" members complained that this forum was too union too blue but after my recent threads I can safely say our forum is now pro "lost cause". too gray, too pro-Republican, far form its union roots. I am now in the minority for not one pro- union member ever raise a voice on my behalf, sad day for the union cause. Just like the Republican Party has become a bastion of Confederate political values our board is now a bastion of "lost cause" values. As the Republican Party once stand up against Confederate cause and now is one with them all but in name our forum once criticized the "lost cause" movement now is one with them.

I must do what I can to save the Republicans and this forum form themselves... The lone voice I am...

I am just waiting for that knock in the night on my door......to silence a lone voice...

Confederacy may have lost the war but won the hearts and minds of this forum...

Dam....those Confederate Secret Societies....
I really think you shouold go and see someone.. a doctor perhaps
 
I would tend to agree. Of all the many dumb things done in the name of secession and Southern independence, the murder of Lincoln and the attempted assassination of Seward were probably the stupidest. I can understand them as the flailing acts of a few men in a dying cause, but the harm they did the South far outweighed any fantasy of vengenance and retribution the plotters may have had.

I also agree that Reconstruction was fairly lenient by the standards of the day. The hundred years or so of history before that show plenty of examples far worse than Reconstruction ever was: "The Terror" of Robespierre and the French Revolution, the repression of uprisings in Spain and the Tyrol and La Vendee by Napoleon, the aftermath of the Revolutions of 1832 and 1848 in Europe, etc. -- if those aren't bad enough, we move on to the world outside mainstream Europe, to the Balkans and India after the Sepoy Mutiny and Russia and ...

If we imagine Lincoln presiding over those first 3 years instead of Adrew Johnson and the Radicals, then handing off to Grant and perhaps staying around to advise him, well ... things would certainly have been better for the South.

ADDED LATER: Imagine the chaos that would have arisen if they got Vice President Andrew Johnson as well. That would have made Lafayette S. Foster of Connecticut, President Pro Tempore of the Senate into the President in 1865.
Tim

Pleasee tell me that in your first paragraph above, you are not trying to link Booth to the CSA. While certainly a sympathizer, there are no links that I know of between him and the governemnt or the army or the leaders, civil or Military.
 
Sorry to spoil your warm and fuzzy moment but:
http://hnn.us/articles/7302.html

Thus, according to Ward Churchill, a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado, the reduction of the North American Indian population from an estimated 12 million in 1500 to barely 237,000 in 1900 represents a"vast genocide . . . , the most sustained on record." By the end of the 19th century, writes David E. Stannard, a historian at the University of Hawaii, native Americans had undergone the"worst human holocaust the world had ever witnessed, roaring across two continents non-stop for four centuries and consuming the lives of countless tens of millions of people." In the judgment of Lenore A. Stiffarm and Phil Lane, Jr.,"there can be no more monumental example of sustained genocide—certainly none involving a 'race' of people as broad and complex as this—anywhere in the annals of human history."

What happened to the Native Americans was certainly harsh and heartless. It is nowhere near as unique as Churchill, Stannard, Stiffarm and Lane present it -- which is unfortunate. Without reaching too far, take a look at Ireland. Cromwell landed in 1640; by 1653 an estimated 600,000 of the estimated 1.4 million Irish were dead (not to mention those shipped off like cattle and those who simply fled; the Captain Blood story is based on those sent to places like Barbados to work as slaves.) The practice continued like that over the next 350 years or so. During one of the Potato Famines, a minister in the English Parliament pleaded "They are dying in the streets of Ireland!"; across the aisle someone shouted out "Good!"

Not quite as large overall, of course. "Only" 40% of the population dead in 14 years. We can take a look at the slaughter in Burundi and such too, or Pol Pot in Cambodia, or the estimated 10,000,000 the British killed in India over a couple of centuries (probably too high), or what the Romans under Caesar did to the Helvetii and such, or ... what was it that happened to Carthage?

That's not to minimize the horrible things that happened to Native Americans. It is only to point out that horrible things happened time and time again to lots of people in lots of places.
 
What happened to the Native Americans was certainly harsh and heartless. It is nowhere near as unique as Churchill, Stannard, Stiffarm and Lane present it -- which is unfortunate. Without reaching too far, take a look at Ireland. Cromwell landed in 1640; by 1653 an estimated 600,000 of the estimated 1.4 million Irish were dead (not to mention those shipped off like cattle and those who simply fled; the Captain Blood story is based on those sent to places like Barbados to work as slaves.) The practice continued like that over the next 350 years or so. During one of the Potato Famines, a minister in the English Parliament pleaded "They are dying in the streets of Ireland!"; across the aisle someone shouted out "Good!"

Not quite as large overall, of course. "Only" 40% of the population dead in 14 years. We can take a look at the slaughter in Burundi and such too, or Pol Pot in Cambodia, or the estimated 10,000,000 the British killed in India over a couple of centuries (probably too high), or what the Romans under Caesar did to the Helvetii and such, or ... what was it that happened to Carthage?

That's not to minimize the horrible things that happened to Native Americans. It is only to point out that horrible things happened time and time again to lots of people in lots of places.

To be honest it was the first source I ran into. I only used it because if I didn't, someone would ask for it. I don't know the author's credentials, but we all know that what they wrote is pretty close to the truth.

Unprecedented? No. It is, along with slavery, our country's worse atrocity.
 
To be honest it was the first source I ran into. I only used it because if I didn't, someone would ask for it. I don't know the author's credentials, but we all know that what they wrote is pretty close to the truth.

Unprecedented? No. It is, along with slavery, our country's worse atrocity.

I think I'd agree -- but that 12 million estimated North Americans in 1500 would include Canada and Mexico and maybe Central America. Disease probably got most of them, and what Cortez and the boys did was a very sharp start. Don't blame it all on us.

By chance, I grew up in a small town in NJ, where the Armenian Home stood across from the high school. There is a monument there to the 2,000,000 Armenians killed by the Turks from 1916-18 (their figure). I can still drive by it any day I want by changing my route from the house to the office. Or in towns around here you can usually find memorials to residents killed on 9/11: 5 in this town, six in that, maybe 8 or ten or a dozen over there. Lots of people get killed for stupid reasons.

Tim
 
I won't be closing it anytime soon, but I will be closing it for being tripe.

I am quite surprised that the old-timers haven't yet figured out the OP. He will grab onto anything to stir up most everyone -- really quite inventive when you think about it. Y'all bit and ought to be a little embarrassed to be in the boat instead of swimming freely looking for a meal that doesn't have a hook in it.
 
I won't be closing it anytime soon, but I will be closing it for being tripe.

I am quite surprised that the old-timers haven't yet figured out the OP. He will grab onto anything to stir up most everyone -- really quite inventive when you think about it. Y'all bit and ought to be a little embarrassed to be in the boat instead of swimming freely looking for a meal that doesn't have a hook in it.

Of course, speaking for myself only here, but since this is a discussion board, some of us actually like to participate in the discussion, regardless of whatever motives might be behind the OP.
 
Of course, speaking for myself only here, but since this is a discussion board, some of us actually like to participate in the discussion, regardless of whatever motives might be behind the OP.

My own view is stupidity needs to be challenged when publically and proudly stated by those who find it "good" and "needful" especially 150 years after the fact.

Shorter version.

"You put it out there, don't be surprised when some one steps on it."

Unionblue
 
A "Let them up easy." was the better policy. But, if I were there at the time, I would probably have supported the executing Jeff Davis and hanging certain senior officers who resigned their commissions specifically to join the armed forces of the insurrection and fight for that insurrection
 
Sorry, I must be feeling grumpy.

Tim

No need for an apology. I appreciate and value every post you make. I was aiming it at myself.

I just feel stupid for ever posting on this thread. Shane and I exchanged a few blows, but we're okay now.

I don't mind these sort of topics and rarely get upset by them. Others seem to let it get to them and lash out. That's when my trigger gets torqued.

dvrmte
 
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