Custer V Stuart @ Gettysburg: Importance?

Baggage Handler #2

2nd Lieutenant
Joined
May 6, 2008
Location
Old Northwest Territory
"Sherman, set the Wayback to July 3, 1863."
"Right away Dr Peabody."

Three miles to the east of the Union lines, and shortly before Pickett's lurch toward immortality, we find the humbled JEB Stuart in a potentially very powerful position. One from which he might distract Union reserves, scatter the supply wagons in the Union rear, or quite possibly come up the rear of Cemetery Ridge in force as Pickett's soldiers assault the front.

It might have been any of these, or even something else. But something happened. Buford happened. Specifically, one of Buford's subordinates, a man who would till his own half acre of legend several years later happened: Custer happened.

Twice that day Custer charged into the middle of Stuart's troopers; twice that day Custer had a horse shot out from under him.
Whatever might later be said about his methods, this day it worked. Stuart was stopped cold and was unable to work any magic in the Union backfield.

My question: Was the Stuart/Custer encounter instrumental in the failure of Pickett's charge, or was it merely a sideshow to the big show (apologies to S. Watkins)?
 
And all this time I had thought that it was Wade Hampton that Custer waded into.

Was it Kunstler or Troiani who painted that?

Whatever.

And, ummmm. Custer didn't report to Buford.

But the question remains: Did the Cavalry division of which Custer's brigade was part of, screw up Lee's plans for the PPL offensive?

I think (he says in a small, weak voice) it did. Lee had bigger plans on that third day. He didn't send a charge against a strong line without having something going on in the background. Stuart was to have been that background.

But that's a theory that's already been discussed interminably on other threads like "Lee's real plan." Or was that a book? I forget.

Ole
 
My question: Was the Stuart/Custer encounter instrumental in the failure of Pickett's charge, or was it merely a sideshow to the big show

Since Custer had whipped Stuart (Hampton was there as he was JEB's subordinate) before Longstreet's July 3rd assault failed, Stuart would have been unable to turn the hoped for Federal retreat into a rout, as is the traditional cavalry role.

Custer reported to Kilpatrick, not Buford, although he had unofficially attached himself to Gregg as there was a "smell" of imminent fighting.

Sideshow or waste of time and lives, take your pick.
 
It was Gregg vs. Stuart, not Custer vs. Stuart. Poor Gregg, he's so forgotten. There's a movement to put up a statue of him at ECF.

I'll go for sideshow-to-the-big-show, due to how it turned out. Stuart was supposed to get through in order to follow up on Pickett's victory. Neither thing happened, so it wound up being a non sequitur. Certainly still important, particularly to the men who fought there, but since Pickett did not break through, the stirring events at ECF turned out not to have an outcome on the Charge itself. (I do not believe Stuart was supposed to get all the way to Cemetery Ridge.)
 
c-h-g2.jpg


http://www.wadehamptoncamp.org/hist-rf.html
 
The Battle at Rummel Farm
(Gettysburg)

Other Names: East Cavalry Field, (Gettysburg)

Location: Gettysburg, Penn.
Date: July 3, 1863

Principal Commanders:
Maj. Gen. J. E. B. Stuart [CS]
Brig. Gen. Wade Hampton [CS]
Brig. Gen. David McMurtie Gregg [US]
Brig. Gen. George Armstrong Custer [US]

Forces Engaged: Cavalry Brigades
Estimated Casualties: 480 total (CS 230 - US 250)

Result: Inconclusive

2ndsc-rfa.jpg





http://www.wadehamptoncamp.org/hist-rf.html
 
That's not the one I remember seeing, Glorybound, but a good look nevertheless.

We get too involved in movies and such. When a cavalry regiment charges another cavalry regiment with drawn sabers, there is something to beat drums for. Lordy! That must have been something to be really scared of.
 
That's not the one I remember seeing, Glorybound, but a good look nevertheless.

We get too involved in movies and such. When a cavalry regiment charges another cavalry regiment with drawn sabers, there is something to beat drums for. Lordy! That must have been something to be really scared of.

There is a description on some NPS signage about horses cartwheeling during the charge. Scarey is hardly the word.
 
More people ought to visit the place. I've been there twice and it was all but deserted.

I have been there about ten times and three other cars or buses are about the max. The owner of the farmhouse that was in the middle of the battlefield died about a year ago. Wonder what will become. The field needs an interpetative center and that place would be perfect.
 
I have been there about ten times and three other cars or buses are about the max.
You actually saw a bus? Dude. I didn't think tours even went there.
The owner of the farmhouse that was in the middle of the battlefield died about a year ago. Wonder what will become. The field needs an interpetative center and that place would be perfect.
And his name was...

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Ha, I just discovered I have more ECF pics!
 
You actually saw a bus? Dude. I didn't think tours even went there.
And his name was...

2651754716_6412c05322.jpg


2650963861_b0494d8164.jpg


Ha, I just discovered I have more ECF pics!

Three of my trips were with Ed Bearss on a bus and we were the only bus.

When mr Hoffman was healthy he would come out and invite visitors for a look-see.

The big Michigan monument has been vandalized several times in recent years.
 
Three of my trips were with Ed Bearss on a bus and we were the only bus.

When mr Hoffman was healthy he would come out and invite visitors for a look-see.
How lucky... and it seems like I'm the only one who hasn't been on an Ed Bearss tour. How do you hook on with one?
The big Michigan monument has been vandalized several times in recent years.
You mean the one they recently tied a red cloth on? Have people been doing other things to it?
 
How lucky... and it seems like I'm the only one who hasn't been on an Ed Bearss tour. How do you hook on with one?
I mostly go on about eight to ten bus tours with Ed for the Smithsonian Resident Associate program where i am a volunteer tour monitor. Most are day trips although about two each year are overnight for such things as the 1862 or 1864 valley Campaigns as well as my favorite, the ANV retreat to Appomattox. Early August I will be doing a Revolutionary War in NYC area with ED. A two night trip that looks exciting. He also gives weeklong tours for the Smithsonian journey program.

Most of Ed's tours concern the Civil War but he also does Revolutionary tours, War of 1812, Indian Wars (Ed grew up in Montana near the Crow Reservation) and WWII in Europe and the Pacific. This summer he is doing a tour in Greece that will include some ancient battles.

he gives tours and lectures all around the country for local Civil War Roundtables and senior groups like the Montgomery County MD Senior Recreation where he gives two tours a year and where I also volunteer as a bus monitor.

He does a lot of work for History America and for Dick Ward at Civil War tours http://www.civilwartours.org/

I was suppoused to go on a Washington Crossing the Delaware tour this weekend but it was cancelled due to bad weather. Next week I will on the Battle of Monmouth tour. Ed does four tours a year for the Smithsonian on Booth's escape. I go on one or two every year.

You mean the one they recently tied a red cloth on? Have people been doing other things to it?

The monument had some graffitti problems as have several other monuments. Luckily, no physical damage. I suspect the isolation is an invitation to vandals.
 
Poor Gregg, he's so forgotten. There's a movement to put up a statue of him at ECF.
K Hale,
Do you recall where you heard that? That's a capital idea, worthy of a donation!

The owner of the farmhouse that was in the middle of the battlefield died about a year ago.

As far as I know, unless something very unfortunate occurred quite recently, Mr. Hoffman is still very much alive. He had a stroke a few years back but has since been on the road to recovery.
 
K Hale,
Do you recall where you heard that? That's a capital idea, worthy of a donation!
I thought I had read it somewhere on civilwarcavalry.com, but I just Googled it, and it turns out it has been in the works for... uh, quite awhile.

http://www.gdg.org/Research/Authored Items/BCRReports/1917.html

Specifically:
THE GREGG STATUE. A bill was introduced at the present session of the Legislature of Pennsylvania by Hon. D. Calvin Rudisill, appropriating $30,000 to be expended by the Pennsylvania Monuments Commission to erect an equestrian statue on East Cavalry Field to Bvt. Maj. Gen. David McM. Gregg.
I don't think this is where I heard it originally, though, so maybe it has taken on new life.
 
K Hale,

As far as I know, unless something very unfortunate occurred quite recently, Mr. Hoffman is still very much alive. He had a stroke a few years back but has since been on the road to recovery.

I am happy to hear that. I was on a tour there about 1 1/2 years ago and we stopped by their drive,hoping to see him come out, but the placed looked deserted. Someone on the bus said that he heard that he had died from his illness.

Does he still live in the house or a nursing home?
 
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