Zouave Uniform Help

[thrashassault]

So someday I would like to piece together a Zouave uniform, particularly Wheat's Tigers. But I am having trouble finding any online sutler that sells Zouave uniforms. I'm sure their out there. Maybe I'm looking in all the wrong places so I know you all will help me!

[johan_steele]

http://www.stonybrookcompany.com/ can do any kind of trousetrs you want and have doe zouve trousers in the past. Beyond that Mr Sullivan can point you in the right direction.

[Remember1864]

Most "online" sutlers deal in "mainstream" uniforms and equipment. The range of quality between these entities runs the gamut from excellent to garbage. What you buy can depend a lot on your interest level, your knowledge base of CW uniforms, and your billfold.

A good jumping off spot for progressive reenactors is www.authentic-campaigner.com. Several quality purveyors listed there. In my experience, most, (not all), sutlers set up at large reenactments are marketing to the masses. Someone that just wants to put on the "blue, (or grey), suit". Many CW, academic, living history folk demand much more than that. Hand sewn button holes, flat felled seams, correctly dyed material of proper weave and weight, et cetera.

Good fortune in your quest.

John Marler
Franklin, TN

[ole]

Our Mark Wadsworth could probably make you a pair, and it would hand-stitched. But I don't think he's ever made a pair of zouave trows.

And, if I'm recollecting properly, Louisiana Zouaves (OK, Tigers) wore striped trousers.

Dear one is in the middle of a counted-stitch rendering of a 5th NY Zouave who wore gray trousers. Lots of interpretations on what is Zouave.

Sounds like some digging is in order.

Ole

[prroh]

And, if I'm recollecting properly, Louisiana Zouaves (OK, Tigers) wore striped trousers.

They looked like mattress ticking. Were they, in fact, made from the material?

[Mark Wadsworth]

I never made a pair of zauove pants. What I do know about then is that you can't use the normal thick wool that is used on many of the other trousers. They would be very heavy and hotter then they should.
The only zauove patterns I could find were the junk patterns from Period Impressions. I am not sure how good that pattern really is.
I did make a make a sort of hybrid zauove jacket for a kid about 4 years ago. I took a kids shell jacket out of blue wool added a red collar piped the front in red and added the snakes out of twill tape. It did not match that unit 100% but the 8 year old boy had something he was proud of and blended with the group. That project was a one of a kind that I did and really wish I took photos of that one. Perhaps I will do one again some day.

[ole]

They looked like mattress ticking. Were they, in fact, made from the material?

You're asking me? Striped is as close as I can come to guessing. Now that you've mentioned it, mattress ticking might well be the best description I've heard.

Meanwhile, I'm just trying to drum up some interest in thrashassault's quest. I'm confident Mark could make one, but I'd have no idea what he ought to make it out of. And I don't know how much assault would be willing to shell out for an authentic Loosiana Tiger suit. Couldn't be cheap.

Ole

[thrashassault]

You're asking me? Striped is as close as I can come to guessing. Now that you've mentioned it, mattress ticking might well be the best description I've heard.

Meanwhile, I'm just trying to drum up some interest in thrashassault's quest. I'm confident Mark could make one, but I'd have no idea what he ought to make it out of. And I don't know how much assault would be willing to shell out for an authentic Loosiana Tiger suit. Couldn't be cheap.

Ole

Yeah it probably will cost. That's why I was curious if online sutlers had these uniforms so I could just begin to see what the pricing would be.

[Don Dixon]

Only one company was uniformed as Zouaves: Co. B ("Tiger Rifles"), 1st Special Battalion ("Wheat's Tigers"), Louisiana Infantry, wore the following:

Trousers: Zouave style made of blue and white striped cotton mattress ticking.

Gatters: cotton, five buttons high, white bone buttons.

Shoes: Black leather.

Shirts: Red wool, with bone buttons.

Jackets: Louisiana blue wool.

The most accurate reproduction Tiger uniform is that worn by Co. B, 1st Special Battalion, North-South Skirmish Association (N-SSA).

How do we know: Two Tigers were put to death by musketry near Centerville, VA, for mutiny and buried there. In the early 1980s the land was going to be developed. The land owner obtained an exumation order, and the graves were opened by members of my N-SSA team, using archeological techniques. At the time, we had several National Park Service historians and Smithsonian Institution staff on the team. If you look around the web, you can find several journal articles written about the exhumation. In the graves were scraps of cloth, and the bullets that killed them. They were shot wearing new shoes. If they had Louisiana buttons on their uniforms, the buttons had been cut off during the ritual humiliation before they were shot. Tests of the cloth at the Smithsonian produced the above results. To correct the old drawing by the Company of Military Historians, they were not uniformed in brown jackets. But, the blue jackets also account for why they were fired on by other Confederate troops at 1st Manassas.

After study, the remains were burried with mlitary honors in a local church yard.

All our uniforms are hand made, and are significantly more expensive than what one might find on suttlers' row. No one that we know of makes these uniforms commercially. There are number of really crappy copies in the reinactor community, however.

Regards,
Don Dixon

[prroh]

Only one company was uniformed as Zouaves: Co. B ("Tiger Rifles"), 1st Special Battalion ("Wheat's Tigers"), Louisiana Infantry, wore the following:

Trousers: Zouave style made of blue and white striped cotton mattress ticking.

Don Dixon

So, My guess that the trousers looked like mattress ticking was correct. Is there a story about why they used that material? Did the French or North Africam Zoauves use ticking?

[Don Dixon]

Speculation: The uniforms for Co. B were made in New Orleans in 1861, before the Tigers deployed to Richmond. If you've never lived there, it gets very hot and humid for most of the year. I suspect that two factors drove the selection of material. First, the mattress ticking was available. Second, it suited the climate. Not so good in northern Virginia in the winter of 1861-2, but very good in New Orleans. But, remember, it was going to be a short war. My cowardly Yankee ancestors were all going to run away, and all the boys would be back, uninjured, after just one gallant rush and a show of bayonets.

From the French Zouve uniforms I have seen in the French Army Museum in Paris, the French didn't use mattress ticking. They did adjust the material in their uniforms to suit the climate in which their troop units were deployed. Much more intelligent than outfiting everyone in wool no matter where they fought.

Regards,
Don Dixon

[prroh]

Speculation: The uniforms for Co. B were made in New Orleans in 1861, before the Tigers deployed to Richmond. If you've never lived there, it gets very hot and humid for most of the year. I suspect that two factors drove the selection of material. First, the mattress ticking was available. Second, it suited the climate. Not so good in northern Virginia in the winter of 1861-2, but very good in New Orleans. But, remember, it was going to be a short war. My cowardly Yankee ancestors were all going to run away, and all the boys would be back, uninjured, after just one gallant rush and a show of bayonets.

From the French Zouve uniforms I have seen in the French Army Museum in Paris, the French didn't use mattress ticking. They did adjust the material in their uniforms to suit the climate in which their troop units were deployed. Much more intelligent than outfiting everyone in wool no matter where they fought.

Regards,
Don Dixon

You agree with what I suppose to be the case as well. Matress ticking was used mostly because it was available, rather than for copying existing Zouave uniforms as other such exotic dress units did.

[ole]

And more suitable for parades in Louisiana.

Ole

[101combatvet]

I don't recall ever seeing French Zouave uniforms having pants of this material. I do know that the French Zouave uniforms from the 1880 to 1918 period were made from a wool similar to that used on the US shell jackets of the CW period. I have a pair of Confederate Zouave trousers and they are a red material with a blue strip running down each outer leg. I have never been able to ID them by unit name but they are Confederate made.

So, My guess that the trousers looked like mattress ticking was correct. Is there a story about why they used that material? Did the French or North Africam Zoauves use ticking?

[prroh]

I don't recall ever seeing French Zouave uniforms having pants of this material. I do know that the French Zouave uniforms from the 1880 to 1918 period were made from a wool similar to that used on the US shell jackets of the CW period. I have a pair of Confederate Zouave trousers and they are a red material with a blue strip running down each outer leg. I have never been able to ID them by unit name but they are Confederate made.

Barbara Tuchman said in The Guns of August that the French dead in their bright red bloomer-type trousers, in the early part of the war made the battlefields almost pretty.

[thrashassault]

Very interesting Don. Was there a date on when the men where executed?

[ole]

I have a pair of Confederate Zouave trousers and they are a red material with a blue strip running down each outer leg. I have never been able to ID them by unit name but they are Confederate made.

The "mattress ticking" seems to have been limited to one company of Louisiana Zouaves.

Seems the commonalities among both northern and southern zouave units was the design: blousy pants, short jacket, sash, leggings and silly headgear. Colors didn't appear to matter much. From what I've seen, blue jackets and red pants were the most common, but a New York regiment (the 5th?) wore all blue. (With red trim, red sash, and red silly hat.)

The Zouave unit was a holdover from prewar drill companies (lots of fire-house companies in the mix) that got together for the fun of it to march in parades and the like. When the war kicked off, many enlisted as a body and retained their uniforms. Anyone know when the last Zouave uniform was worn?

Ole

[prroh]

The "mattress ticking" seems to have been limited to one company of Louisiana Zouaves.

Interesting, the material shows up often in paintings

Anyone know when the last Zouave uniform was worn?

Ole

Can't speak for the French or any North African Army and the US militia, but I would guess when the Volunteer regiments were disbanded so too went the uniform in the US Army. In 1864, in a move to encourage enlistments, the federal government promised to equip and maintain the uniforms in newly formed volunteer regiments.

The last Union soldier killed at Appomattox was a newly enlisted 19 year old Zouave from a NY regiment.

[Don Dixon]

The two Tigers were executed on December 9, 1861.

In U.S. service, units of the organized militia continued to be uniformed ast Zouaves until approimately the Spanish American War.

In French service, Zouave units wore their distinctive uniforms well into the first year of WWI. But, regular French infantry also wore blue jackets and red trousers. Feld Grau was a much better idea, even if you started the war with a spiked helmet on your head.

Regards,
Don Dixon

[prroh]

The two Tigers were executed on December 9, 1861.

In U.S. service, units of the organized militia continued to be uniformed ast Zouaves until approimately the Spanish American War.

In French service, Zouave units wore their distinctive uniforms well into the first year of WWI. But, regular French infantry also wore blue jackets and red trousers. Feld Grau was a much better idea, even if you started the war with a spiked helmet on your head.

Regards,
Don Dixon

I seem to think I saw troops from Morocco in Zouave uniforms on TV at least into the 1960s. Don't know if these were field uniforms (which I think was the intention of the question) or ceremonial garb like special army units who act as guards at palaces i.e. the papal guards or British, Danish or Greek guards at Royal palaces.

[prroh]

This was painted around 1888
http://www.artquotes.net/masters/van...ogh_zouave.htm

[prroh]

This was kind of a Papal State Foreign legion, who were replaced by the Swiss guards shortly after the bad publicity generated by John Surratt's membership in the Zouaves. Note that they wore kepis rather then the turban or fez, with its Islamic connections. I saw a picture of Surratt upon his arrival, in uniform, back in the US. His headgear in the picture was that beanie-like cap with a long cord that ended in a tassel.

A picture of Surratt in uniform in in the photo gallery of this site
http://www.usni.org/magazines/navalh...?STORY_ID=2009

Also, I checked and there are still Algerian and Morroccan units that wear Zouave uniforms for ceremonial occasions.

[Nathanb1]

I feel really silly. I have an 8x10 mounted painting from a magazine I use in class to show my kids. It's of one Zouave in the uniform ya'll are describing, standing at rest, and is quite detailed. I looked online and couldn't find it, but I would be happy to scan it and post it for you if you need it. I had misplaced the folder it was in for a couple of years and just unearthed it this year. I suspect it was from some Civil War magazine about 5-6 years ago, but not sure, and I'm not sure which artist did it...but it's a dead ringer for what you're talking about. Think it's from about mid-thigh up. We have inservice Monday, so I could get it and scan it if you're interested.

[thrashassault]

That would be very kind if you can do so Nathanb1!

[prroh]

Don Troiani's take on the uniform



http://books.google.com/books?id=F_r...age&q=&f=false