Percussion caps

[prroh]

Here is a question that reenactors might have some personal insights.

I have always been curious about how many percussion caps might have been dropped by excited soldiers during battle whose hands were, no doubt shaking. That small cap had to sit just right on the nipple.

Looking at a package of cartridges of the type that was issued to the soldiers, I noticed that the package (about the size , shape and wrapping as a package of firecrackers) contained ten cartridges and twelve caps. So the fact that caps might be dropped appears to have been recognized. Were two extra caps enough? I would have thought five extra was more reasonable and the caps were cheap.

Any thoughts?

[Glorybound]

Great question. A few years ago when I was shooting my Colt replica revolvers, which also require percussion caps placed on nipples, I purchased a brass "capper" which stored about 25 nipples and was spring-loaded inside. The spring kept tension on the caps forcing them to the outlet which would hold one securely while it was placed on a nipple. Once placed, the spring tension would push the next cap out in position so it could be quickly placed on the nipple. Straight line cappers were/are available for muskets, and teardrop-shaped cappers are used for revolvers. The tapered end of the pistol cappers allowed the tip of the capper to fit in between the narrow confines between the indentation of the cylinder wall and the nipple so as to successfully cap the nipple.


The capper is a simple device but I don't know if any were in use during the Civil War. It would have indeed been quite a problem I think trying to cap a musket or pistol in the heat of battle. The caps are very small and difficult to hold with just the fingers.




Lee

[Glorybound]

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/default...6ea99d4a74d5e6

Photos of different cappers from Dixie Gun Works catalog.



Lee

[ole]

The caps are very small and difficult to hold with just the fingers.

Especially when it's cold. Presumably, today's powder-burners don't do much cold-weather shooting.

Ole

[prroh]

Especially when it's cold. Presumably, today's powder-burners don't do much cold-weather shooting.

Ole

Never thought of gloves or numbness of the fingers. Yes much worse. Right now I am troubled by numbness in my fingertips due to side effects of powerful medication. I have considerable trouble buttoning my shirt. Don't think I could handle capping a rifle.

[Me-109 Jagdfleiger]

I only dropped 1 cap this winter while hunting Muzzleloader with my Euroarms 1853 Enfield due to the cold (but no one was shooting at me I would have lost a whole lot more lol) but I would think many were lost under the heat of battle, those little buggers can be a pain to grab, expecialy if the cap box has some cotton or the like inside
Jonathan

[ole]

I have considerable trouble buttoning my shirt.

A good case for pullovers.

Ole

[prroh]

I read that Christian Sharp's first series of breech loaders came with a paper disc that had ten caps inbedded in them. Each time you opened the breech the disc rotated. It was like the disc that were used on cap pistols that had rotating cylinders, although the roll of caps was more common. These disc caps would certainly speed up the loading process.

Apparantly, this idea wasn't practical and the disc rifles were retrofitted with a hammer and cap nipple.

I am not sure if it was impractical because of the paper. My cap pistol would leave a residue that I had to scrap off or else the disc wouldn't seat properly.

Too made the idea died, but I guess the repeater and self contained metal cartridges made the cap disc moot.
Did any other rifle or carbine use the disc and did it yield good results?

[ole]

Heard of those roll-primers, but my guess is that their use was too intricate and their results was unreliable. I don't recollect the military buying many of them.

Ole

[prroh]

Heard of those roll-primers, but my guess is that their use was too intricate and their results was unreliable. I don't recollect the military buying many of them.

Ole

Were they the caps on rolls that were used in 35 cent cap guns of my day? Not the disc caps on my $1.50 cap gun that you could flip out the cylinder? I had another cap gun that you haveload toy rounds and you had to put a cap from a roll on each round. My fat fingers would get them crooked or whatever and I doubt if I got two shots out of six to fire.

If it were a roll, then alignment would have been a major problem of the early Sharps.

[ole]

Think the system was called the Maynard Primer. I have no idea how it worked.

Added: Wikipedia has a description and illustrations. Surprise! It was very much like a tape fed through a roll-type cap-gun. Jeff Davis was enthusiastic and caused the mechanism to be installed on some 1855 Springfields. Apparently it worked well until in field trials where the mechanism quickly fouled.
Ole

[prroh]

Think the system was called the Maynard Primer. I have no idea how it worked.

Added: Wikipedia has a description and illustrations. Surprise! It was very much like a tape fed through a roll-type cap-gun. Jeff Davis was enthusiastic and caused the mechanism to be installed on some 1855 Springfields. Apparently it worked well until in field trials where the mechanism quickly fouled.
Ole

Thanks

here is the site that has a diagram
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ma...mer_system.jpg

It looks the same as a cap pistol roll. Note that ith cuts the tape and disposes of it. Sharps did have weapons that used this system as well as the Lawrence peller primer, whatever that is.

Additional information.

It seems after the failure of the Maynard the Lawrence pellet prime was a disk primer that was used in conjunction with the percussion cap system. I looked at several antique rifle sites and all agree that this system eas used in cold weather when numb fingers made attaching a percussion cap difficult. Also it was used when it was necessary to increase the rate of fire.

It appears that you pull back the hamer and press down on a screw that rotated a pellet into the primer nipple. This system seems to have worked through most of the war.

Wonder why percussion caps were used at all.

[johan_steele]

The Maynard tape primer system worked splendidly during testing it however had the flaw of not handling humidity well at all. Before the US Army figured that out they M1855 series of arms had been produced and manufactured as well as thousands of obsolete arms converted to percussion w/ the system.

[johan_steele]

Too the original question about dropping caps. I have never had an issue while using the original style. Those not of the original style are another matter. I've shoy prety much year around... most of 500 live rounds and God only knows how many blanks. But then I've also never had anyone shooting at me for real while loading and firing.

[frankconrad]

percusion caps for the musket had last a mimnum of a week submerged in water.
forty years ago I hunted with a muzzle loader in real winter down to zero if you worked ourside much
I didnot have troble droping caps , musket caps being much bigger I doubt there would be much trouble Drill,Drill, Drill would be the answer.




I I

[johan_steele]

r

I read that Christian Sharp's first series of breech loaders came with a paper disc that had ten caps inbedded in them. Each time you opened the breech the disc rotated. It was like the disc that were used on cap pistols that had rotating cylinders, although the roll of caps was more common. These disc caps would certainly speed up the loading process.

This isn't a Sharps patent I'm aware of... or ever even heard of to be honest. I think it's a misunderstanding of the Maynard system. Christian Sharps was a direct competitor to Maynard and wasn't happy when he was asked to adapt the Maynard system to his M1853 carbine.

Apparantly, this idea wasn't practical and the disc rifles were retrofitted with a hammer and cap nipple.

I am not sure if it was impractical because of the paper. My cap pistol would leave a residue that I had to scrap off or else the disc wouldn't seat properly.

Too made the idea died, but I guess the repeater and self contained metal cartridges made the cap disc moot.
Did any other rifle or carbine use the disc and did it yield good results?

The Sharps/Lawrence Pellet Primer system came out in their M1853 carbine (something in the neighborhood of 10k were produced) and was far more reliable and effective than the Maynard system. The difference between the two? Size. The Sharps system didn't utilive the tape at all, individual tiny discs (about 20% smaller than the size of a hole punch) and while the Shaps system was more robust, more reliable as well as more effective it failed in one regard. It was a @#$% to load in the field. Which is why the Army adopted the Maynard system instead.

In 1855 Sharps was forced to manufacture the M1855 Sharps carbine which used the Maynard system. W/ something like 400 made all going to 1st US Dragoons out west where they were not terribly well received.

Something like 5 or 10,000 went to the Brits, who didn't care for them when their problems showed up in India. As I understand it quite a few of those ended up in the CS being run through the blockade.

In 1859 Sharp's produced the M1859 "New Model" which is the model most people think of when the say CW Sharps carbine. The M1863 was nothing more than a $ saving model w/ parts being interchangeable and a few cosmetic differences. Around 90,000 M1859/M1863 carbines as well as the the M1859 & M1863 Sharps Rifle were made; all of which utilized the Lawrence pellet prime system.

[prroh]

The Sharps/Lawrence Pellet Primer system came out in their M1853 carbine (something in the neighborhood of 10k were produced) and was far more reliable and effective than the Maynard system. The difference between the two? Size. The Sharps system didn't utilive the tape at all, individual tiny discs (about 20% smaller than the size of a hole punch) and while the Shaps system was more robust, more reliable as well as more effective it failed in one regard. It was a @#$% to load in the field. Which is why the Army adopted the Maynard system instead.

Thanks for the excellent explanation, I knew very little about these paper caps, other than they existed. Now I can fake a knowledgable conversation on my next CW tour.

So when my brother and I shot at each other whilst hiding behind chairs in the house on rainy days, driviving my mother crazy, little did we know that we were subscribing to the Maynard system.

Around 90,000 M1859/M1863 carbines as well as the the M1859 & M1863 Sharps Rifle were made; all of which utilized the Lawrence pellet prime system.

These weapons also used percussion caps as the primary ignition system,right? If so why didn't they use just the Lawrence system? It sounds like they were world's apart better than the percussion caps. Forgive what may sound like niave questions, but I have learned about 90% of my current knowledge on this subject in the past few days.

[Redmen110]

The Maynard tape primer used a roll of caps, and was fed by a little arm inside the cap cavity. When the hammer was cocked back, it fed a cap over the nipple, and the 55 hammer had a "cutter" on the base of the hammer. This system, while a great idea, had the drawback of unreliability in wet or humid conditions. Many of the lock blanks left over that were captured at Harpers Ferry were used on the confederate made muskets, hence the "high hump" lockplates that are seen. The confederacy lacked to tools or the time to complete the Maynard assembly.

Cap pouches were lined with a strip of lambswool at the back, which helped the caps from spilling out, but many removed this, as it could hinder the ability to remove caps quickly. Cold weather, numb fingers, and the sheer terror of battle I am sure sent may an unspent cap to the ground. Plus, grabbing for a single cap in a hurry can usually mean one or two come out with it...I cant see a soldier accidentally pulling out two and taking time to put one back...he either chucked it or held it in his mouth. I even heard stories of some soldiers keeping a mouthful at the ready.

[johan_steele]

These weapons also used percussion caps as the primary ignition system,right? If so why didn't they use just the Lawrence system? It sounds like they were world's apart better than the percussion caps. Forgive what may sound like niave questions, but I have learned about 90% of my current knowledge on this subject in the past few days.

The Sharps were capable of using either, most users kept the Lawrence pellet primer in reserve for when they needed a mad minute.

The M1855 series were also capable of using either but the maynard tape lost favor quick. The percusion conversions to the Maynard sys were intended only for the Maynard tape and putting a cap on one in a hurry is a challenge.

[prroh]

The Sharps were capable of using either, most users kept the Lawrence pellet primer in reserve for when they needed a mad minute.

.

My question is why the Lawrence system was kept in reserve. It seems far superior to the percussion cap. Was it cost? Difficulty in loading?

[johan_steele]

The difficulty in loading while under fire, or stress. Plenty of time w/ nobody shooting at you no problem. People shooting at you when you really wouold like to shoot back, not so much.

[sf46]

I'm sure that some caps were dropped in the heat of battle. Removing such a small object from a cap pouch and then sucessfully placing it on a small nipple requires use of fine motor skills. In the adrenaline filled situation of battle, fine motor skills are diminished if not totally ou the window.

Training through repetition usch as is done by modern police departments can help reduce the effects, but not totally alleviate it.

I've noticed myself during reenactments that at times I began to fumble with caps while reloading. I basically had to slow down and concentrate harder on the task at hand.

[prroh]

I'm sure that some caps were dropped in the heat of battle. Removing such a small object from a cap pouch and then sucessfully placing it on a small nipple requires use of fine motor skills. In the adrenaline filled situation of battle, fine motor skills are diminished if not totally ou the window.

Training through repetition usch as is done by modern police departments can help reduce the effects, but not totally alleviate it.

I've noticed myself during reenactments that at times I began to fumble with caps while reloading. I basically had to slow down and concentrate harder on the task at hand.

So you think that 12 caps for every 10 round package might not be enough?

[johan_steele]

My own belief is that 12 for 10 is plenty. But we also have to realize that these men drilled incessently, they could literally do this in their sleep w/ no comands.

[prroh]

My own belief is that 12 for 10 is plenty. But we also have to realize that these men drilled incessently, they could literally do this in their sleep w/ no comands.

I guess I am viewing things through my life's experience. Short fat fingers that were frostbitten in the tundras around Fairbanks makes handling those tiny caps, under extreme stress of combat, seem almost impossible.