Reply With QuoteEver notice that Jackson tended to hold the left in Lee's battles?
Stonewall Jackson
James Longstreet
"Jeb" Stuart
Other, up to and including Chancellorsville
Other, after Chancellorsville
Lee's "real" right arm
I'm fairly sure there's no absolute clearcut answer. I'm just posting this for comparison and conversation.
So let's not turn this into a "____ was the best! ____ sucked!"
Also, of course, staff officers are just as eligible as line officers.
Multiple votes enabled for those who feel things were different after Chancellorsville versus before.
Though Duty's face is stern, her path is best:
They sweetly sleep who die upon her breast.
Henry Abbey, "The Roman Sentinel"
Ever notice that Jackson tended to hold the left in Lee's battles?
Now that you mention it (I'm sure its crossed my mind before, but I never thought anything of it), yes.
Is there some significance to that that I'm forgetting/overlooking?
Though Duty's face is stern, her path is best:
They sweetly sleep who die upon her breast.
Henry Abbey, "The Roman Sentinel"
Originally Posted by The Iron Duke
Fredericksburg is an exception. He was on the right and had less cover than Longstreet. He stacked his men deep except for this one little spot......
I'm still not completely sure what is meant by Lee's "right arm."
Is it supposed to be a reference to how the Greeks and Romans tended to place their best troops on the far right?
I just think it's ironic that Jackson is called Lee's right arm but more often than not held Lee's left.
Last edited by The Iron Duke; 10-11-2009 at 12:48 AM.
Lee said something about Jackson being his right arm when he (Jackson) was wounded at Chancellorsville - was he?
I'm assuming that meant Lee felt Jackson was one of his most trusty subordinates, or the "offensive" one, or something to that effect.
So basically, who (acknowledging that no one individual was more important than all the other canidates) was the most important?
Appologies for not being clearer, I'm not entirely certain what exactly Lee meant by the "right arm" quote myself.
Though Duty's face is stern, her path is best:
They sweetly sleep who die upon her breast.
Henry Abbey, "The Roman Sentinel"
The right has traditionally has been considered the place of honor in a battle but Jackson rarely fought on the right which is why Lee's comment at Chancellorsville just doesn't make sense to me.
I think someone can make an argument that Longstreet was just as offensive minded as Jackson. Jackson was simply better at independent command.
It's a hard question which, IMO, can go either way.
If you're right handed cut off that arm and see how much you miss it.
OK, I voted for Jackson... if it's Lee's anatomy we're going for, everyone knows Stuart was the eyes and ears.
I always thought Lee's "He has lost his left arm, but I have lost my right" was a reference to the old saying about somebody or something being your right arm... you know? Somebody you depend on. Since Jackson had lost an actual arm, I thought Lee felt it was an ironic situation and therefore an ironic thing to say. If it had been his right arm, maybe Lee would have said something about them both losing a right arm.
I never knew that about the right being the place of honor in a battle. Why the right? Is there a practical reason or is it symbolic?
<---click me!
I think it goes back to the ancient Greeks. For most of ancient Greek history, there really wasn't much in the way of tactics. Most battles were basically just solid phalanxes running into one another. Whichever side succeeded in shoving their opponents off the battlefield was basically declared the winner.
Because most people are right-handed, being to the right of the king at the banquet table was considered an honor. This probably translated somehow into military formations, since the commander would usually be positioned in the center.
We also see this preference in theology, where Jesus is said to sit at the right hand of God in Heaven.
Left-handed people have been suspect for much of history. Indeed, the Latin word for left, "sinistro", is the root of the word for "sinister" in modern English. There are some stories of left-handed people being burned at the stake during the Inquisition, though the evidence is sketchy. Needless to say, it's only been in the 20th Century that schools stopped trying to teach left-handed children to write with their right hands.
Interesting. But, isn't it a bit of a stretch to think there was Deep Meaning in Lee's typically assigning the right to Longstreet and left to Jackson? Or is that not what's being implied?
I'm as confused as you are, Ms. Hale. It is (in my understanding) that the right was a place of honor. And it did carry some into the CW. But "my right hand" was more than likely what one says on the death-bed of a subordinate and had no real meaning other than symbolic.
Lee was obliged to send his right or his left against a weaker point. Didn't matter much who was there. Symbolic only.
Ole
Life is not about waiting out the storm. Life is about learning to dance in the rain.
"Stonewall" was Lee's cornerstone. The only reason I say this is because after Chancellorsville, everything went downhill for Lee.
Severon, Civil War Researcher.
But it could be said that you are falling into the logical fallacy of post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Explain, please.
Severon, Civil War Researcher.
Dear List Members;
The Sword hand is the right. The Bridle hand, is the left.
Directions to the troops are usually signaled by the right hand, because it was free to do so with or without the sword/saber.
Expressions & Sayings (R)
Right-hand-man - chief assistant (of either sex), especially an indispensable ... for the total abolition of the episcopacy of the church 'root and branch', ...
users.tinyonline.co.uk/gswithenbank/sayingsr.htm - Similar
Just some thoughts,
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf
But Stonewall wasn't always acting as the sword which is why this question is hard to answer.The Sword hand is the right.
This is because in classical warfare troops tend to be turned slightly to the right (due to holding a shield), therefore would drift to the right. Therefore the best place to control them is on the right.
Much the same tradition continued into the linear warfare period. The proper place of a regimental commander is on the right of his line for example.
In seniority, the senior commander was deployed to the right flank, the next to the left. So with two subordinates the senior (in this case Longstreet) would have the right wing, the next senior (Jackson) would have the left wing. If he had a third wing it would go to the next most senior in the centre (e.g. DH Hill at Antietam).
keegan's book
On another thread within another board 67th claimed that John Keegan's new book on the ACW repeated disproven myths about the war. Apparantely she/he has chosen to ignore my request to cite some of these "myths".
Since this is a direct slap at an internationally recognized historian as well as the others that have used these "myths" in their writings, I think that the poster calling herself/himself 67th Tigers should be a bit more specific than an off-hand crack. After all, it is only fair to hard earned reputations.
Last edited by prroh; 10-19-2009 at 12:20 PM.
It's the logically fallacy known as "after, therefore, because of". You said that Stonewall Jackson was obviously Lee's "right arm" because the South started going downhill after he died. But this is a logical fallacy, because there is no way to know whether or not the South would have gone downhill after May 10, 1863, if Jackson were still alive.
I think Lee was making a play on words. Jackson lost his left arm, but Lee had lost his right, meaning "right hand/arm man" or trusted subordinate.
Pat
Lee's "real" right arm
In a world of mostly right handed people, the right had usually does most of the work with the left, just assisting. In ancient armies, the shield arm(defensive) was the left arm side; the weapon's arm(sword, spear, pilum, lance etc., etc.) considered the offensive/fighting side of the warrior. was the right arm side. While Lee with Longstreet defended with one corps, Jackson maneuvered and attacked.
In preparing for battle, most commanders tended to put their weakest units(and/or commanders) on the side furtherest from where the was expected. In N. Va. that was usually the Federal right.
Lee's "real" right arm
Although conventional wisdom has it that "no one is indispensible", it appears that Jackson was indispensible for the kind of battle that Lee liked to fight. After the death of Jackson, Lee never attemped wide ranging flank attacks.
Lee would not let Longstreet, make a wide flank movement at Gettysburg(or anyone else, throughout the rest of the war), because Longstreet was not Jacison.
The title of this poll is a pun.
Severon, Civil War Researcher.
For the three people who voted "other", who did you have in mind?
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