Knights of the Golden Circle

[16thVA]

When Chambersburg, PA was burned by Gen. McCausland the Masonic temple was spared.

[ole]

I find it strange and telling that many formal and informal societies and web sites exist to revise history and, even, to proslytize for a third revolution.

Is there any site dedicated to blaming the South for all the ills of the US?

Just a thought.

Ole

[OpnDownfall]

It is implicit in Historical terms, that the south is the cause of most of the ills usually associated with modern day American socity.
The consolidation of the Federal Gov't into a true Nation State was the direct result of the effects of the Civil War and since there would have been no War, without secession and without slavery, there would not have been secession.
Although, it was not until Franklin Roosevelt's administration that the Federal government became truly imperial, the Civil War was the watershed, of the struggle between the dreams of theFederalists and Anti-Federalists.
As with many weak people, many the original leaders of the confederacy mistook stubborness as strength and their worst fears were realized, because of their own arrogance and stubborness.

[diddyriddick]

It is implicit in Historical terms, that the south is the cause of most of the ills usually associated with modern day American socity.

While I respect your opinion and your contributions to this forum, I'm gonna have to disagree here, Opn. Granted that the consolidation of the federal government began with the Civil War, but the ballooning of the federal bureacracy in the 20th century was inevitable, given historical developments. Moreover the civil rights movement of the middle of the 20th century was surely not the best example of southern progressivism. I'm just curious what else you might lay at the feet of southerners.

What about pollution and all it's attendant issues? That all started in industrialized cities long before the south actually had industry. As I read the population figures for 1900 five of the twenty most populous cities were southern or borderline.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922422.html

Or maybe you forgot about the social uphevals of the 60s. I don't remember hearing about riots or people being shot at the Citadel or LSU. Certainly southerners were dissatisfied with the Vietnam war, but they managed to disagree more civilly than our northern brothers.

At the risk of Yankee-bashing, I'll stop there.

The South gave us great Americans like Booker T. Washington and George Washington Carver in education; or political greats like Woodrow Wilson and Dr. Martin Luther King; or Journalists like Edward R. Murrow and Bill Moyers; or writers like Edgar Allan Poe and Ernest Hemingway.

Southern culture gave us Blues, Jazz and Rock and Roll. It delighted us with culinary treats like Gumbo, Chili, or Barbecue. It enlightened us with To Kill a Mockingbird and Yoknapatawpha County

As I've said before, we Southerners assuredly have our crosses to bear, but please don't add more. Have we been wrong before? Absolutely. But we've been right once or twice, too. Please don't paint with such broad brush strokes.

I'm sorry if I've hijacked, but felt compelled to respond.

[ole]

Hijaking, forgiven, Diddy. Smoking!

Ole

[ole]

The ****weeds of THE league, and the KGC are part of our fabric. Maybe a stain in the cloth, maybe not. This is, after all, America. It is not up to me to judge. But I am allowed to put up one helluva gripe.

BUT. These deluded souls have the right to spew their viewpoint. And I have the right to disagree but not to suppress. However distasteful, I can only argue.

Which brings us to the "fairness doctrine" which is entirely off topic. So I will stop here.

Ole

[OpnDownfall]

To the extent that the Federal government is 'Imperial' and the United State of America is a 'National Consolidationist State', are true and that they are 'ills' then those 'ills' flowed directly from the requirements of the CW.
History, does indeed, shows that most Gov'ts, over time (those that survive any length of time) tend to progress toward consolidation of power to a central gov't.
The relevant question, is, Did the CW speed up or hinder that Progress. To the extent that it speeded up the consolidation of power in the central gov't, those that started the CW are the more responsible for the speed of that consolidation, if not the consolidation itself.