Hornets Nest

[georgian]

Hey yall, I need any kind of info specifically on the Hornets Nest during the battle of Shiloh. Any help would be greatly appreciated. God Bless

[raywilson]

Dustin,

You may want to take a look at Shelby Foote's "Shiloh: A Novel" (222 pages). It's an excellent description of the battle, including the Hornet's Nest. It includes a map that, in addition to depicting the Hornet's Nest in relation to the other areas, briefly describes the different events of the battle.

Regards,
Ray

[georgian]

Thank ya kindly

[johan_steele]

Wiley Swords <u>Shiloh, Bloody April</u> is quite well done as well.

Another source for some info may be M.F. Force <u>From Fort Henry to Corinth</u>

&#40;Message edited by johan steele on July 24, 2004&#41;

[mobile_96]

You also want to read &#34;Shiloh, The Battle that Changed the Civil War&#34;, by Larry Daniel. Covers the Hornets Nest quite well, and excellent job for both days in the Bloody Pond area.
Less on the Hornets Nest specifically, and more on the men doing the fighing would beg reading &#34;Seeing the Elephant&#34; Raw Recruits at the Battle of Shiloh&#34; by Joseph Allan Frank and George A. Reaves.
I spent 3 1/2 days at Shiloh and was lucky to spend about 30 mins talking with Stacy Allen, the site Historian. Most of the time was spent discussing the Hornets Nest, the balance on Shermans position.
Chuck in IL.

[ole]

Dustin:

You may have forgotten your original posting, but I&#39;d like to jump in with a few.

The Hornet&#39;s Nest made good copy. And it was not unimportant on that first day. But it was not so important as popular history has made it.

Consider: Grant ordered that Confederate dead be buried where they died. There is no gravesite anywhere near the Nest. The Nest was not overrun, it was surrounded. Stand in that spot today. If they have kept it anywhere near what it was, no sane man would have attacked it as the books have it.

Next, separate the actions in the area. They were not all the same. The Peach Orchard, the Sunken Road, Bloody Pond, were all in the same area but can more easily be understood if they are considered separately from the Nest.

Bad time in the battle. Impossible odds. But little of it conforms to popular history.

[SpartanGSG]

You also want to read "Shiloh, The Battle that Changed the Civil War", by Larry Daniel. Covers the Hornets Nest quite well, and excellent job for both days in the Bloody Pond area.
Less on the Hornets Nest specifically, and more on the men doing the fighing would beg reading "Seeing the Elephant" Raw Recruits at the Battle of Shiloh" by Joseph Allan Frank and George A. Reaves.
I spent 3 1/2 days at Shiloh and was lucky to spend about 30 mins talking with Stacy Allen, the site Historian. Most of the time was spent discussing the Hornets Nest, the balance on Shermans position.
Chuck in IL.

Chuck,
A bit down the line from your first post on this but how does history and your park historian view the performance of Gen Prentiss and his sturdy 6th division. Among the unsung heroes allowing Grant to fight another day?
Respecfully,
Spartan

[ole]

A bit down the line from your first post on this but how does history and your park historian view the performance of Gen Prentiss and his sturdy 6th division. Among the unsung heroes allowing Grant to fight another day?

At last! Someone who wants to renew discussion of an actual battle!

For one, and I forget the numbers, but those fighting "with" Prentiss were not all his -- a goodly portion of that unhappy, beset group were from Hurlburt and Wallace's troops. As was mentioned earlier, their misfortune was to be surrounded.

It must be recognized that Prentiss was in the middle of "holding at all hazards." This is the Prentiss who bore the brunt of the "surprise" and was ready to cashier Peabody for bringing on a general engagement (read, first discovering the impending Confederate advance).

As I recolllect (by the way, I was with mobile_96), little mention was made of Prentiss' stand -- it was more on the lines of the Union Troops' stand.

Once Stacy realized he wasn't talking to tourists, he warmed up and talked way longer than I could have expected. Had some interesting theories on the battle, at least one of which I'd never heard before and haven't heard since -- that one being that Beauregard/Johnston expected the Federals to be lined up, north to south, and facing west. Another is the lack of burial trenches. As noted earlier, Grant ordered the dead to be buried where they fell, hence the trenches near where the heaviest slaughters occurred. No trenches in the face of the Peach Orchard, Sunken Road or Hornet's nest. Why not? The simplest explanation is that fighting was not so heavy in those areas as history would have us believe -- multiple charges, heavy casualties, terrible slaughter might well have been told out of proportion.

But that wasn't your question was it? Forgive, please. I get excited when anyone mentions Shiloh/Pittsburg Landing. You been there yet? Make it a point to do it before your legs and stamina give out. You can drive to the major points, but there is so much more to see than you can from the parking areas.
Ole

[SpartanGSG]

Though Prentiss position contained elements of Hurlbut and Wallace, I think the main body of Hurlbut was positioned at the Peach Orchard wasn't it Ole? I believe it was Hurlbut's skeddadle that began the rapid rout followed by Wallace. If I recall it was really terrain and Confederate confusion and disorder that even allowed Prentiss the opportunity to hold "at all hazards" for a long as they did was it not?

I dont know much about Prentiss beyond Shiloh, was he and the western Federals captured promptly paroled and what became of the General?
Respectfully,
Spartan

[ole]

Quick reply, Spartan, will have to look it up tonight. If I'm recalling correctly, Prentiss surrendered more of Wallace's troops than he did his own. The terrain did serve the Yanks well. The Reb's had to cross open fields. The Yanks had a nice gully behind their position where some of them could, in rotation, clean their weapons, eat a cracker and take a breath. Confederate confusion? Perhaps, in terms of who was in charge of whom. Personally, I'd have had a great deal of trouble charging across that open field against an enemy I couldn't see, but who had no trouble seeing me.

Am also questioning the use of "skedaddle." Prentiss' left was flanked just east of the Bloody Pond/Peach Orchard area. Prentiss' right took a look at Ruggles' line and got out of Dodge -- in effect, they were in a hopeless position.

On Prentiss. He was exchanged in October, 1862. He served on the court-marshal of Fitz John Porter and made MJ 3/13/63 to date from 11/29/62. At the time, he was commanding the District of Eastern Arkansas with headquarters at Helena. His resignation was accepted on October 28, 1863, perhaps because he felt he had been shelved, but officially because of "health and the situation of his family."

Will check into this more, later.
Ole

[SpartanGSG]

Probably a poor choice of words on my part which does no justice to the stout defense the men from Iowa Illinois and Ohio laid down, meant to infer that when the positions became untenable the rout was fairly rapid. I know that critical ammunition shortages within the artillery units, (best illustrated by the activities of the Ist ILL Lights who quickly ran out of canister and fought in close quarters with what was left of the solid shot) certainly dimished it's role. I also cite the stubborn defense of the 55th Illinois and 54th Ohio singled out in particular before they had to give way due to the pressure of their flanks being rolled. Prentiss clearly did yeoman's work responding to the deteriorating situation around him particularly when Hurlbut caved in and to me both deserved a better fate and a degree of respect and praise from Grant that seemingly never came his way.
respectfully,
Spartan

[ole]

Prentiss clearly did yeoman's work responding to the deteriorating situation around him particularly when Hurlbut caved in and to me both deserved a better fate and a degree of respect and praise from Grant that seemingly never came his way.

Agreed. I haven't figured out why he was sent into limbo-land when it appears that he did more than could be expected. Someone will know.
Ole

[larry_cockerham]

Surprise, I've actually walked this battlefield a couple of times and read a few books. Problem for me is that it occurred a bit early in the war for me to relate. I'm greatly enjoying reading these obviously insightful posts and plead for you gentlemen to continue. (Ole, your knowledge continues to impress me. Not bad for a yank.)

[ole]

Spartan also wrote:

...Hurlbut caved in and to me both deserved a better fate and a degree of respect and praise from Grant...

Hurlbut was made a Major General serving in Memphis and the Department of the Gulf, but he earned the distrust of his superiors with his common proclivity for chasing the almighty dollar. In the army, you don't do that, especially when your superior is Grant and his best buddy,Sherman.

Thanks for the kind words, Johnny. Your pursuit of ancestral details is better.
Ole