Mind if I try something?

[jkorber]

Kind of harsh considering you were only watching a few minutes of a 48 hour event... yeah those seesesh looked a little sleepy I will admit and as far as us feds shooting straight, well I don't doubt those confederate fella's were under orders not die since we out numbered them 3 to 1 and this was only the beginning of the weekend. Cover issue, hmm well when the man who writes the script tell us we have to break cover and form a skirmish line in the open and he's the fella that decides whether or not we get utilize the facility the rest of the year for our drills, pickets posts (alot different from the powder burner you saw a part of), commerations, GAR interpretations etc, well then dammit we shall break cover and form a line in the open. Folks on Long Island grow weary, pretty fast, of puffs of smoke coming out of the bushes, as far as horrors of battle and drama etc well like I said that was 3 minutes out of 48 hours
If half of those people, watching, come back another time during the season and pay their entrance fee again and see one of our living history events that we put together (other than the annual powder burner), well then good for us, and good for old bethpage cause it gets to stay open. Truthfully that snippet of film was very misleading, full of reluctant confeds, unrealistic distances etc and taken on its own I probably would have pointed out the same things some of y'all did, perhaps with a bit more diplomacy, but then I am new here and would be concerned about the impression I would make on folks who don't know me. Some of you obviously, do not share these concerns. Well as I said that tiny little snippett of a 48 hour event is very misleading and I am sorry it left you with a bad impression. Perhaps some day if you are in the neighborhood you will do us the pleasure of contacting us and we could show you around the Old Bethpage Village Restoration (minus the campy powder burner, strictly for tourists anyway)....or you can check us out at www.119nysv.org, see what we're up to

cheers
Joe Korber
ps- that first line in the quote I found to be particularly hurtful.."remotely in shape" my goodness there's a 67 yr retired NYPD sgt in that line, he's got more sand than half the reenactors in the northeast, and we're not the only unit in the universe with a few guys carrying a front porch around
judge not lest ye be judged, or so I have been told

Originally Posted by johan_steele

Unfortunately such is not uncommon... apparently neither side is capable of shooting straight, being remotely in shape or have an understanding of the term cover.

Example, the Union boys should have stayed in the cover of the edge of the woods, while the public might not have easily seen them the smoke and report coming from the trees would have far better masked the fact that they weren't terribly experianced in deploying or acting as skirmishers. Rapid firing in skirmish order can look rather intimidating when all that is seen is the flash and smoke rising... it's more realistic as well. Skirmish lines coming at each other then stopping in an open field and blazing at each other... without taking casualties or finding cover... hokey at best.

THe CS boys... the bored looks and barely muted conversations pale next to the poor loading & firing. NO urgency, fear or worry whatsoever... and I think I would have strangled the men (yes plural) who exhibited such poor control of their arms... and the man way out in front of the skirmish line taking a long swallow from his canteen ARGGGGGHHHHH!!! Apparently no one is shooting at them. After having seen quality CS units like 4th Al, 17th TN & several others... the frustration.

I have a feeling that if I would have been there I would either have been hanging my head in shame or in a raging fury. The point is this, I am no hardcore, not by any stretch of the imagination but I have seen mainstream units w/ poorer kits than I saw there (I mean a newbie wearing black tennis shoes!) but moving and working with real urgency and doing their ****dest to act the part of fighting men. This was nothing but powder burning... it wasn't educational and wasn't even vaguely accurate.

I have a real problem w/ powder burning shows for the public... they lack all of the horrors of battle and at best they illustrate marching and some manuevering. I don't think the public comes away w/ anything but an appreciation that a rifle sounds pretty when fired and when a couple dozen guys are shooting at each other it sounds vaguely impressive.

I apologize for my soapbox... I have been to events such as this and left afterward feeling somehow sullied by the experiance. There is a reason I prefer the smaller living history events where there is no hokey pretense of battle.

[johan_steele]

Originally Posted by jkorber

Kind of harsh considering you were only watching a few minutes of a 48 hour event... yeah those seesesh looked a little sleepy I will admit and as far as us feds shooting straight, well I don't doubt those confederate fella's were under orders not die since we out numbered them 3 to 1 and this was only the beginning of the weekend. Cover issue, hmm well when the man who writes the script tell us we have to break cover and form a skirmish line in the open and he's the fella that decides whether or not we get utilize the facility the rest of the year for our drills, pickets posts (alot different from the powder burner you saw a part of), commerations, GAR interpretations etc, well then dammit we shall break cover and form a line in the open. Folks on Long Island grow weary, pretty fast, of puffs of smoke coming out of the bushes, as far as horrors of battle and drama etc well like I said that was 3 minutes out of 48 hours
If half of those people, watching, come back another time during the season and pay their entrance fee again and see one of our living history events that we put together (other than the annual powder burner), well then good for us, and good for old bethpage cause it gets to stay open. Truthfully that snippet of film was very misleading, full of reluctant confeds, unrealistic distances etc and taken on its own I probably would have pointed out the same things some of y'all did, perhaps with a bit more diplomacy, but then I am new here and would be concerned about the impression I would make on folks who don't know me. Some of you obviously, do not share these concerns. Well as I said that tiny little snippett of a 48 hour event is very misleading and I am sorry it left you with a bad impression. Perhaps some day if you are in the neighborhood you will do us the pleasure of contacting us and we could show you around the Old Bethpage Village Restoration (minus the campy powder burner, strictly for tourists anyway)....or you can check us out at www.119nysv.org, see what we're up to

cheers
Joe Korber
ps- that first line in the quote I found to be particularly hurtful.."remotely in shape" my goodness there's a 67 yr retired NYPD sgt in that line, he's got more sand than half the reenactors in the northeast, and we're not the only unit in the universe with a few guys carrying a front porch around
judge not lest ye be judged, or so I have been told

No harm no foul; you're right I do sound plenty harsh... too much so. My most sincere apologies. I have been dealing w/ a personal issue of trying to get people to put out their best and sadly I expect people to try as hard as I or others do and some just don't.

Running one event and assisting w/ others I grow overly frustrated at people always wanting to see a show... to me that is like going to Hollywood for history; it does nobody any favors.

The best compliments I have ever heard came from a couple combat veterans watching a skirmish in the woods a couple years ago... when a combat veteran says that he had to step away becuase the sounds were a little too real it made me feel that we had finally done things right. Unfortunately the next year we were back to fighting in an open field...

You are of coarse right about getting people back... and oversize front porches are a problem nationwide.

My frustration is that I KNOW both US & CS units can do better than I saw in the short video; it is very frustrating to see a notable lack of effort. Suffice it to say we can always do better. I have been guilty of being hot & tired and not doing a very precise drill or manuever on occasion and I begrudge noone those times but it seems that more and more the mundane or just good enough tp pass is acceptable at events.

My lack of diplomacy has become legend unfortunately and for that I apologize. Diplomacy... gets us little anymore.

[jkorber]

no sweat, events like this are at their best when the crowds go home and the shootin ends, the camp life goes on, evening dress parades, nights round the campfire
morning revielles, morning dress parades, these things unfortunately go on out of the public eye because of the hours of the village...no audience but we do it none the less. One of best events is a picket post we put on ...very cool, no audience considerations come into the planning so to the outsider it would seem a very dull affair but it is by far one of our more rewarding historical interpretations.. of course truth be told sometimes its just rewarding putting on our gear and full packs and doing laps around the village http://www.oldbethpage.org/
to stay in shape

its a great place, we're very lucky

cheers
Joe Korber

[Chase_P]

Originally Posted by william42

I saw some of the yankees reloading while kneeling, and others who stood up to reload after they fired. I had wondered about the feasibility of trying to load such a long gun while kneeling, so it was interesting to see it done. In reading I've come across passages where soldiers under heavy fire had to try to reload while in a prone, flat on the ground position, which seems to me would have been next to impossible, but I suppose it was done.

Terry

If you look through Hardees you will find the period instructions on how to fire and load kneeling and lying.

Chase

[Rad2duhbone53]

Ok ..............after recovering from the volley I felt, its my turn.The footage I placed was mainly as a test to see if it can be done. That was proven. As to the countenance of Johnny Reb and Billy Yank on the field, there could be many reasons. As for the diplomacy of those that expressed their reaction to the footage, it leaves much to be desired. So.......I'm challenging anyone who has footage of any reenactment to show how its done. Place it up on CWT and let the masses decide. Thats only fair.

[johan_steele]

This is a pic of a CS Skirmish line at Chickamauga a couple years ago, note their spacing as they prepare to move across the field... I think these boys were increadible. While I know of no video of the event... I would wager the pic gives a good impression of proper spacing attitude etc.

[johan_steele]

This is another pretty decent pic of skirmishers pushingthrough the woods, while the spacing is certainly not regulation the evidence of men using cover is there. Ironically, this is not a good pic of the skirmish line that day... I think they bunched only twice and both pics I have show the bunching...

[johan_steele]

Pickett was mentioned... IMHO a wonderful picture of a pickett looking across the countryside. The calm before the storm.

[Miss Markie]

Rad, I don't know beans about re-enactments of actual skirmishes or battles as I have never been to one where folks are actually shootin'! I usually have been to more of the living history types of presentations that have people, as jkorber talks about, living camp life. I enjoy that sort of thing, but I have the feeling most of the time that I am intruding upon the living history presenters' world. I like to be a 'traveler' and hate being a 'tourist' as I feel a 'tourist' when at these events.

But at any rate, I congratulate you for getting another techno-bit under your belt, as I have yet to even figure out how to get a dad-gum photo uploaded or downloaded or whatever, to this or any site. I always have to get RebAl to help me!

Anyway, from a very ignorant audience member, for what it is worth, I appreciate your efforts!

[Rad2duhbone53]

Someone else took pictures of the reenactment; can you find me? (hint......the video was a pretty steady shot)