3 confederate prisoners @ Gettysburg -Photo help

[scone]

I wasnt quite sure were or how to post my Question..

But here it is, Is it me or does the man in the middle have a bed roll and a knapsack as well.

Yos.
Steven

[johan_steele]

I don't think so Steve, there are no straps acros his chest, I think it's his Haversack slung over a shoulder. Interesting that all three men have Tarred Haversacks what look to be good shoes, blankets, canteens etc... They seem to be quite well equipped.

I've always liked this picture, defiant and proud even in defeat. Americans.

[scone]

There are no straps across his chest correct, but what if he had no straps?
With his stance though there is a dark line across the top of his shoulder that could be a shoulder strap, its hard to tell though.. There are also two dangling straps as well on the item that is also confusing.

steven

[VS on the belt plate]

It looks like a soft pack knapsack to me.

It look almost like he is holding the object in question in his right hand (elbow bent,forearm tight to chest) as opposed to wearing it. But it could be a tarred haversack stuffed with a lot of ..well stuff.

Its thought that Confederates in the field were better accoutered that legend tells us. That aside however...I have read one opinion that this photo was taken on or about July 15th 1863...some two weeks after the battle ended.

Therefore these men would have been provided with extra food/garments/blankets by their Yankee hosts.

I suppose there were still Confederate prisoners around town at this late date..or these men might have been stragglers that never made it to the actual battle.

No evidence is known that identifies their regiment(s)

One of the GREAT photos for sure.


(Come to Gettysburg,I'll show you exactly where this photo was made)

VS..etc

[scone]

Thats what i was thinking Phil..

Would love to see where the picture was taken..

Like shane said they look very proud and defiant.To bad know one knows there name or what became of them..

Steven

[cpl_lewis]

one of my fave pics of the civil war....... i have it in one of my albums

[scone]

I wish I had bigger picture the item in question may be explained then.

Phil the following was posted on another civil war group i belong to.

According to William A. Frassanito's "Gettysburg a Journey in Time," page 71, the photo, in the Library of Congress holdings, was taken by Brady on or about July 15, 1863, at Seminary Ridge. Frassanito points out that on July 16, 1863, 2500 Confederate prisoners were transferred from Gettysburg towards Washington and then on to a variety of camps. Due to the fact that the image was made nearly two weeks after the battle, again, according to Frassanito, "...they may have been stragglersm captured during mop up operations somewhere along either the Chambersburg Pike or Haggerstown Road."


Regards,
Steven

[VS on the belt plate]

I've had that book since it came out,and thats probably where I read it originally.

I was going to check 'The Authentic Camapigner' site later for more insight into this photo.

VS..etc

[johan_steele]

Picture was taken 7 July and IIRC was part of the study by Richard Powger (sp?) of Museum of the Confederacy fame. He is the individual who studied several thousand photos of CS troops close to the lines, original clothing, Wartime pics of both living & dead and he came to the conclusion that photo evidence pretty much disproved the idea of the ragged rebel.

THis particular photo shows likely stragglers or deserters... ironic in that it is often a photo thought to show the spirit of CS troops. All three men are wearing good shoes, well fitting uniforms and frankly do not have the starved look of men who have no supplies.

Steve I've read the same info but lost an argument on the old AC forum and ended up eating a good bit of crow over it. When evidence from the Gettysburg NPS was presented. Almost all of the CS troops captured in the battle were sent South to Baltimore by the 5th.

[scone]

The Following is a reply from a online friend of mine that works at
Pamplin Park in Va. and bellow it is more info on the when and where the Photo was taken.

Steven

------------------------------------------------

Sorry for the delay in responding. Our phone line was fried the other night when the remnants of Tropical Storm Cindy came through (yes, I still have that old fashioned dial-up thing), and I am just getting things back to normal. As far as the photo of the three prisoners goes, I would tend to agree with what some of the folks here mentioned, as well as what I've read in a few other places; namely, that these men were, more than likely, stragglers. Given the fact they are loaded down with accoutrement's and the date at which the picture was taken, the evidence just leads to the conclusion. If you look at the two men flanking the soldier in question, they are both simply holding onto "their" blankets. I would think these were not a part of their regular kits.

Otherwise, why were they not stowed?

Since a photographer could not have surprised these men, they must have been carrying them. As the "Echoes of Glory- Arms and Equipment of the Confederacy" caption says:

"The captives wear knapsacks as well as blanket rolls, possibly in preparation for a lengthy captivity." Now, I realize there are numerous mistakes in the text of the "Echoes of Glory" series, but in this case, I would have to go with it. Gettysburg, and the roads surrounding it that made it important, would have been something of a surplus store for anyone needing any manner of equipment. If you were facing the prospects of being sent to a Northern prison camp, why not grab all you can? If nothing else, it could be a bargaining tool with your captors or fellow prisoners.

Now, as for the man in the middle... Of the three, he is the least burdened by excess accoutrement's. In fact, his kit does not look to be overly cumbersome. With that said, would one bother to carry both a knapsack and a blanket roll? I am sitting here wracking my brain for a quote that might back that up. Off of the top of my head, I can not come up with a single example. Perhaps someone else in the group may be able to help.

It just seems it would be redundant. If you had the carrying capacity of a knapsack, why the blanket roll?

And, if you spent the time and effort to tightly smush everything up into a roll to sling over your shoulder, why, in addition, lug around a knapsack?

Of course, one thing to remember is that you need to drop the picture in your head of every Confederate dispensing with knapsacks. In fact, this utilitarian item was very popular, right on up to the end, with both Rebs and Yanks.

Also, I've seen at least a couple of references to soldiers mentioning leaving items they need on a daily basis where they were within easy reach. So, could this man have been wearing his blanket (I don't see a groundcloth or tent fly) over top, so he did not need to "unpack" each night? Maybe...

If you look, the knapsack seems to be fairly empty... Again, though, I can't seem to think of an example of the redundancy of both the roll and the knapsack.

Plus, the manner in which it (the knapsack) is worn, down low on his back, would lead me to believe it was not his. In all my time at Pamplin Park, I always used to wear a two-bag Federal knapsack for demos, and the only way it was any where near comfortable was up high, on the shoulders, straps as tight as could be without chaffing. In that position, it never galled, and the weight was distributed evenly. If you allowed it to drop down to the small of your back it was almost unbearable. That, though, was simply my observation.

It is a very interesting question! I also wonder as to the province of the third
soldier's uniform??? Notice how dark is the materiel compared to his comrades.
Anyone else have any thoughts???

Cheers and Fairwinds,
Brett Silver

==========================================

I-5 Confederate prisoners on Seminary Ridge,Brady,
stereo #2397, o/a July 15,1863 (LC)

The above title specifies for the first time the precise location of
this famous scene, one of the finest records of Confederate uniforms. The location was established by comparing the background with Brady's
panoramic view of Gettysburg (7). Among the several distinguishing
features present in both scenes is the mammoth tree standing unchallenged on the crest of the distant Cemetery Hill(on the horizon to the left of the first soldier).

The fact that these three prisoners were photographed by Brady on
Seminary Ridge approximately two weeks after the battle indicates that
they may have been stragglers,captured during Union mop-up operations somewhere along the Chambersburg Pike or Hagerstown Road,Lee's main routes of retreat. Certainly it was just by chance that the prisoners happened to be on Seminary Ridge when Brady was working in the same area; as the exposure was made, Union guards undoubtably stood only feet away.

Quite conceivably this view was recorded on July 15, the same day Brady is to have believed to have photographed the headquarters of General Lee. If this is correct, than the soldiers pictured here were very likely among the 2,500 Confederate prisoners transferred the following day,July 16, from Gettysburg towards Washington and thence to prison camps throughout the North.

Today a stone wall occupies the ground where breastworks once stood. A marker(not visible here) describes the stone wall as having been erected on July 4, by Confederate General Rode's division. But if the
interpretation offered here is correct,then it would seem that the
original breastworks were made of logs not stone.


Gettysburg A Journey in Time William A. Frassanito pgs 70-71