sorry 8thvacav, i find your statement is the one that is laughable, how we can go from a denigrating symbol representing a real person (chief wahoo) to reperations is beyond just a "strech" it's a leap.
i find the overreaction and particularly the overreaction to the overreaction to be shameful in itself.
Ed,
Once in reply to the desire to change offensive images of Southern Colonels, CBF and changing the names of schools etc, I stated that I was offended that they are offended.. I meant it too.
I will say this much though, if the NCAA is going to prohibit teams that have anything remotely Southern or Confederate from playing in post season games then it is only fair everything else that is conceivably offensive be banned as well.
I said also, first the NCAA banned Southern things and no one but Southerner opposed it. But that it would not stop there. Nor should it. Or with Native Americans, or Irish, or PETA or And when time comes and those who are currently offended come to find they have been offensive to yet another party, I will not lift my voice to counter it. Because by then, and by them, the Southern voice will have long been silenced. Naturally of course, by the time the current offendees are the offenders, they will be saying.’Oh! now you are just being silly, we don’t mean that...."
Personally I thought the NCAA should have kept out of it altogether. If they could prove active discrimination or corruption on a team, or teams, universities etc then by all means, sanction them. But using their position to be thought police, to circumnavigate the constitution, goes a step too far. But the NCAA has long been one of the most ill managed, power mad and corrupt governing bodies in sports, bless their hearts.
The War still rages! After 150 years..............Very little has changed. The old sores still fester, the old arguments still linger. We still argue over all the old issues, and still..........our opinions never change. All it does, is get it off ones chest. What has it acomplished, really? It is making enemies of each other. Is that the aim of those who are here? No one who frequents this board, is better than anyone else here. All the education is the world, does nothing to heal the bitterness that lies with those who argue. Dawna's appeal has gone largely unheeded or unnoticed, that we bring this board back to where it started. When the roll is called for those who fought in our great conflict known as ........and even this is argued, but for the sake of all those on both sides, and in memorium for them all, we shall call it......The Civil War, as it is most widely known. I have my own name for it, and so do most of the others on this board, but I don't feel like argueing this point, so I will refer to it as such.
I have my own interpretations as to what I believe is right or wrong. I don't care what you think about what mascot may or may not be used, and as to who is offended and who is not. My sole aim when coming to this board was to have an honest, down to earth discussion.............about the why's, the how comes, and the wherefores, of this great war. It has taken an ugly turn. You talk about offending the Black man, the Native American, the Mexican-American, and all the other minorities that inhabit this fine land, but some of you on this board, have forgotten one thing! The offending of some of your most ardent individuals frequenting this very board. The ones who deserve your respect and admiration for just being here to express their individual points of view. This is one of the great freedoms we enjoy here in this country, no matter what injustices were committed in our past history.
I believe it's time for us to step back, take a deep breath, and survey the situation, and perhaps, try again. I, as well as everyone on this board, enjoys being here, and 'debating' those reasons for our country splitting itself in two. However, there comes a time when those 'friendly' discussions take a detour, and we find ourselves again, almost taking up arms against our breathern, only this time, it is with words, and in so doing, we find that words can hurt every bit as much as a bullet, sometimes, even more so. Bullet wounds can, and do heal. Those words that are fired in anger, many times, do not, and have very long lasting effects.
I ask that all those who stand on the brink of a disaster with their fellow boardmates, take stock of the feelings of others. What you say, can and does, hurt very much. We can debate the subject of our great war with much more tact, if you will, than has been demonstrated lately. It is my hope, that the damage is not irrepairable. This board has so much more to offer, and has so many intelligent, humorous, delightful, and just plain, good, folks on it, that I would dislike to see someone leave it, and not return, because someone thoughtlessly said something in haste, or anger.
I have said my piece, and if someone objects, then so be it. I stand by what I have said, and need explain myself no further. Please...........remember to be respectful of each and every individual on this board, for we all have feelings. There is a right and wrong way to disagree. Belittling, berating or castigating will accomplish nothing, nothing that is, except hard feelings. All I ask, is that you think, before you so quickly jump on the keyboard to reply. If you disagree with me, that is fine, it bothers me not. I, as well as you, take kind criticizem, or 'constructive' criticizem, pretty well. But, do not look down, or humiliate me, for what I believe in, just as I will not you. Please, think before you act. If I am out of line here, or have offended any of you, I am sorry, very sorry. I only do this because I am deeply troubled about just where this board is heading at the present time, and I wish to see this trend reversed. I know that there may be some who will probably disagree with me on this, and I expect that, but at least you now have some knowledge of the feelings that are out here.
I would not worry to much about offending are 'most ardent individuals' or those that 'deserve our respect and admiration'. I doubt there has been the damage you feel has taken place. This board and its members are much tougher than some would believe.
What all board members need to remember is that if you present your views on a subject, please expect it to be debated. At last count, I had not seen blood or body parts on the floor nor had I seen any money taken from anyone for expressing a view that others did not agree with.
True, the debate on particular subjects and threads has become quite heated. Some views that most of us hold quite dear have been challenged and not held as seriously by some as we would like. But none of us should be, or wish to be, treated as fragile glass, breaking apart and shattering at the first post of disagreement. Most of us expect to be battered and debated, hotly, without pity or remorse, not excused for our profession of an idea, but expected to stand up to honest debate and defend the flaws in our presentations.
We are human beings and our feelings tend to get bruised along with our egos because we believe at times our reasoning is so brilliant that all should fall to their knees and thank us for the dispensing of our obvious wisdom. But thank God this board is made up of rugged individuals from various backgrounds, experiences, jobs, careers, sections and nations. They don't buy the first thing off the counter but demand proof, evidence that what they are seeing is worth a dam.
Yes, we get angry, we tend to forget decorum once in a while and draw blood. But I have never lost respect for ANY of my fellow board members, no matter how angry or upset I sometimes become with them or a point or a debate. No, I would have them rather be honest with me and not treat me as a fragile ego, but someone they can debate and pull no punches with. Respect, yes, pampered, no.
If I have offended due to my use of language and lack of tact, I apologize. For my arguments and positions taken, take it or leave it or prove it wrong.
I owe each and every one of my fellow board members my respect, as they have taught me much in the course of the many debates we have conducted here. I know they are smart, tough and worthy of that respect. I have no fear of them crumpling under my proposed arguments on a point of debate and I will not treat them as hothouse flowers.
Until that time,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Blue,
Okay, first, let me explain something. I suppose where the feelings part comes in, is that the typed word here upon this board, is sorley lacking in......'feelings', and by that, I mean, the tone in which a particular post is given. Many times, the substance, of a paragraph, or a post as a whole, cannot be determined, and is only surmised, if you will. It is sometimes very hard to exactly try and decipher the typed word, meaning, the tone. You have a tendencey put your own way of speaking into it........thus, some misunderstandings can occur.
When you are standing in front of someone, talking, you can easily detect the tone of their answers, and thus, there is no problem. Typing ......those same words, can sometimes lead to something entirely different. I certainly don't claim that any of us are 'little dainty flowers, or even 'hothouse flowers', but by the same token, I can give, as much as I can take, and that can be probably better than most, the only trouble with that is, that it vears from the original discussion. Some arguements are just as soon dropped, rather than make an uneasy situation worse. So, that is what I was trying to convey. It may not have accomplished it's intended purpose, but it wasn't from a lack of trying. As you have just seen, sometimes it is hard to really explain the typed word, and the feeling it was given in, it can be easily misinterpreted.
Tommy Sir,
Again, I bow to your words of wisdom. I could not have explained it any better myself. I continue to marvel at the simplicity of your words, and yet, the impact that they have.
I see your point, but do not agree. I have always felt the most pure form of communication is the writen word. A person has to think, compose his thoughts, think of a reply, when he or she must type or compose a response in the writen word.
In regards to your 'feelings' being sorely lacking, again I say, I don't think so. There are many posts here on many threads where there is no doubt about what the poster is feeling or wishes to convey a certain feeling by his or her posts. The argument can be made that by talking face to face with someone, they can disguise their 'feelings' but when you put something down in one of these posts, its out there for all to see.
As for the discussion vearing off from the original discussion, that's half the fun on this board. You just never know where you are going to end up sometimes or what you will learn from a subject you thought you knew all about.
As for this thread, I have yet to see it go off topic at any measurable distance. It is doing what is supposed to do, putting forth a topic and getting people's views on it. In the process, we also tend to learn about each other.
Just one man's feelings on the subject,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
I have to echo Unionblues sentiment, as an injured party in this I feel no animosity twords those that dissagree with me, I feel they are very wrong and are slightly upset they can not seem to understand my point. But that is only because I do respect there opinions.
When fools disagree with you it is easy, when people you respect cant seem to get your point it is hard
I see sgtcsa's point. My last reply to ray is a good bit tongue in cheek, meant to be humorous. Without other signals, especially on a sensitive subject, and where the humor must be 'read' so to speak, humor to one can be not humorous in the least to another, and can lead to such problems as the sergeant laments. i do know- i have gotten myself into misunderstandings this way more than once. A body'd think i'd learn, but when a chance to resort to humor arises, i've all the restraint of a youngun contemplating a lollipop. The admonition to wait and think of ramifications of a post rather than a hasty sendoff are indeed pearls of wisdom, and worthy of a thoughful and courteous poster, who i have no doubts are the body of our politic here. It is a courtesy worthy to all here even though we are hardy and stoic as neil says. Still, i am very touched with sgtcsa's concern, and by his chivalry. regards all, ed
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But thank God this board is made up of rugged individuals from various backgrounds, experiences, jobs, careers, sections and nations. They don't buy the first thing off the counter but demand proof, evidence that what they are seeing is worth a dam.
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