Interestingly enough your final quote, walk a mile in my shoes, is actually a native American saying, was originally "don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his moccosins"
My point, exactly, until I understand your problems, it would be kind of tough to say I understand them. Not being an American Indian or black or etc., it would be hard to understand the frustration at not being a typical white, American male who seems to have little or nothing to worry about concerning color or cultural problems as most of this country is geared towards me and my kind.
The closest I ever experienced at being frustrated because of my color was my uniform during the 'bad' old days of Vietnam or being turned down an apartment because I was an 'American' when I was stationed overseas with the military.
I maintain that I have no idea what you go through on a daily basis, what you suffer or pain you go through as you live your life where you live. I won't presume it until I know more.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
PS Ray, no I did not know. Thank you again for more information.
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Without question, our country's general and very often official attitude towards the Native Americans has been deplorable, incredibly ethnocentric and xenophobic to the point of paranoia, extremely unjust, and all in all shameful. I have just finished reading a work on the history of American Indians since colonial times, and it is a litany of disgrace and deceit.
however, as well meaning as it might now be, do we correct these wrongs by banning names and references to Native Americans, particularly where the name or tradition is meant honorably? This not only borders on the ridiculous, it entirley breaches it. As to comical figures or supposedly degrading names or things such as the Tomahawk Chop, true there can be offense taken here which should be considered. but that should be on a case by case basis. The Atlanta Braves fans meant no disrespect by the Tomahawk Chop, it was part of the fun. Chief Wahoo is an offense when meant to give offense, which he isn't. That this caricurature exists and the name Redskins give form to the underlying feeling of denigration. That must weigh against the intent of causing offense. I don't see that it does. The San Diego Padres mascot and emblem is a stereotypical fat and happy friar swinging a bat. All in good fun, I am not in umbrage as a Catholic who sees his faith denigrated. Are the Irish up in arms about the stereotyped brawling and drinking Irishmen of the Celtics and Notre Dame? If they are, I haven't heard of it.
Though very concerned with Indian rights and their place in American history and the country, I see this as a matter of hypersensitivity and overreaction. It should all be ignored. i find the overreaction and particularly the overreaction to the overreaction to be shameful in itself.
"Though very concerned with Indian rights and their place in American history and the country, I see this as a matter of hypersensitivity and overreaction. It should all be ignored. i find the overreaction and particularly the overreaction to the overreaction to be shameful in itself."
The entire broohaha might be summed up with spilt milk, water over the dam, locking the barn, et al. Regrettable but done. We learned something from it, but crying about it now smacks of mental reparation. We're not ever going to feel good about what happened, but it did. And the sun will rise in the east tomorrow. Changing disrespectful names might ease someone's conscience a bit, but changes nothing.
Some people have entirely too much time on their hands.
...again, if this was the Cleveland Darkies with some big lipped watermelon chomping black man you would be up in arms....
Actually, that's quite funny. I guess part of the problem here is that noone considers the name 'Darkies' to be all that very honorable. What noble or heroic image is evoked? And that Chief Wahoo is a cartoonish figure- it is a cartoonish figure, not meant to be real; it's meant as an exagerration, it's a cartoon figure, to be light-hearted. So is the San Diego Padre and Notre Dame Fighting Irish emblem and mascot. It's looking like we'll really need to heighten our vigilance to real or supposed denigrated denizens of the deep (that buffoonish Miami Dolphin and mean old San Jose Shark) , angry fowl (that godawful Disney Mighty Duck) and offended land creatures (many examples,) which being creatures of less intellect (My Gosh- I might be offending them) would take matters into their own hands, not having advocacy groups and such outlets nor gullible organizations to give into them. Wait, there is PETA, where the heck are they in the advocacy of these defiled groups???
First off I’d like to make it clear that I avoid any exposure to sports that I can. I really don’t care, as Niles Crane put it, “What athlete put what ball into what apparatus”. I consider the excitement of crowds to be avoided. However, obviously millions of Americans do pay good money to see these games and parade around in fan apparel, and probably feel strongly about their teams’ symbols. So it would probably be a struggle to adapt to a new logo.
Maybe gradually changing the artwork of the mascots to present more dignified faces would help, and not financially break anybody. I wonder if that would pacify those who are currently offended.
Names like Redskins would be a harder problem to solve. Are we going to have to get some kind of name rating or censoring board like the Legion of Decency? I have a suspicion many fans of teams with questionably-good-taste names do feel a little uncomfortable with the current names, and this might work. Those who feel the outrage is ridiculous can blame the board rather than the offended groups.
Names like the Redskins and others are blatant racial slurs, always have been. I agree w/ Raymond on this. Having lived among the Lakota w/ some good friends among them it isn't too much of a stretch to realize it is an insult. The idea that some drunken white guy parading around in a turkey feathered headdress is offensive to many Native Americans isn't a stretch. It isn't honoring ancestors, it's mocking them.
How to solve the problem? I don't know. But I do know how fast a school or Pro team would get beat down if they mocked MLK, Jeff Davis or Abe Lincoln w/ a derisive team name or mascott. Some offensive names could be easily solved ie The Fighting Sioux to the Fighting Dakota. Even I think if the Indians mascott was changed to something more respectful... but I don't see it happening. Time to break out the Lawyers and give them more public money solving the problem I suppose.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Pardon me but this thread is laughable. I think it is the thing to do for the minorities to look for things to be offend about.I worked with a full blooded Indian and he informed me he wasn't a Indian he was a Native American. Wouldn't that be like a black saying he wasn't a negro. If you work in a factory today you find being white male is a handicap. The woman and the blacks come first for the new jobs. I saw this the last 15 years I worked. Now they put the Mexicans in the mix too. Some say we should pay the Indians and Blacks for what our ancestors did to them. Not one cent from me. You can't hold me accountable for what my ancestors did 150 years ago. JMTCW
Martin
__________________ "I want to bury myself in a den of books. I want to saturate myself with the elements of which they are made and breathe their atmosphere until I am of it."
--Lew Wallace, 1885
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