Every item we have today can be traced back to SLAVERY!!
Perhaps there might be some truth in there, VaReb, but it does require some further explanation. I've tried to see where my greatgrandfather, my grandfather, my father, and myself owe a tiny part of my existence to slavery.
We've read (the northslavery link provided somewhere) that the development of this country was sped up some because of imported "labor." That gets to be rather remote.
I'd like to see an expansion on the statement to more fully understand it.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
I am of the belief, that when the first ships from England with the passengers who eventually settled in Jamestown and other settlements; were of the labor class which there was no escape and could be considered 'slavery.' Further, the 'faith' issues; where religious freedoms were surpressed and those who were sent to the Colonies were shipped here no different than prisoners and or political/religous prisoners. All were White in those times.
Tribe wars in African nations produced prisoners of war. Many cultures have enslaved those they defeated for centuries. The only difference is skin color; the cost of defeat in war is loss of freedom. Thus 'slave;' if not wishing to wear the label 'prisoner.'
The only free were those officers and guards who were assigned to guard the mother country's intrests and; for a short while--the Native American Indians. Yet, officers and guards were 'stuck' just as the 'prisoners/colonists/slaves.'
Even further, the indentured servant; was enslaved until that sponsor was satisfied the debt was paid. How many cases were the sponsor went back on their word; or take advantage of the youth and ladies who came over in the indentured clause. This too; was slavery but--for some; with an escape from it when debt was paid. People ignore that form of slavery as well. Most were White.
In addition, there was the more familiar issue of Blacks in slavery but; again--early in the founding of the Americas; we all were still under British control and laws; which class was a form of dictatorship of how 'enslaved' one was--being White wasn't always an advantage.
The American Revolutionary War/War of Independence; cut the ties of obligation to England however; economically; America had to develop their own set of laws, standards and values. It had to crawl before it walked. Until then; progress had to be made slowly as not to suffer any more shock than it had when the battles were on the Colonies grounds in America. United States of America had been formed from the seeds planted in Jamestown and other settlements.
Personally, my great grandparents immigrated to the USA after World War I. Never owned slaves. What they had, they brought from overseas. They did not own anything that slaves made and or associated with. Yet, they made contributions to this new land--their new home. The relatives born in the USA; to include myself have served our country.
When I began working; no Black ever gave me anything but a hard time. When women entered into the military, semi-military and or para-military organizations; it seemed only then a few Blacks ever made efforts to haul their fair share of the work load; the women in uniform then became the focus of manly prejudices, bias and unkind treatment. Yet, the women pushed men of both colors into a brotherhood. Women remain the butt of most uniformed services that I know of; and their pay isn't the same as a man's. Just as Blacks had to do more, try harder; etc; during segragation; the women now hold that position and--perhaps, will never achieve equality as long as men allow it, ignore it, repeat history of prejudice, inequality of other human beings.
Blacks did contribute to the greatness of this land (USA) but, so have the Chinese, Irish, Germans, Polish, Hungarian, French, Spanish, Japanese, Italians and all ethnic representatives.
The worst slavery; is to our ability to hate and to do evil.
Just some thoughts.
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf
Poll: Many discount slavery as main cause of the Civil War
Do not lose sight of the forest because of all the trees. No body would be fighting in a war, if there was no war. Whatever the motivations of the individual soldiers, there was a war going on and they were in the middle of fighting it.
Without slavery, there would have been no secession and without secession there would have been no War.
Do not lose sight of the forest because of all the trees. No body would be fighting in a war, if there was no war. Whatever the motivations of the individual soldiers, there was a war going on and they were in the middle of fighting it.
Without slavery, there would have been no secession and without secession there would have been no War.
Slavery wasn't necessarily the main cause. If you had read all the declaration of causes you will see there were huge Constitutional issues and I believe that based on this, secession would still have happened. Of course now, that is speculation on my part.
Slavery wasn't th cause of Virginia secession. It was the Constitutional issues of an army crossing the state to battle another state. Secession was voted down twice here.
Slavery wasn't necessarily the main cause. If you had read all the declaration of causes you will see there were huge Constitutional issues and I believe that based on this, secession would still have happened. Of course now, that is speculation on my part.
I think if you look at those, you'll find slavery overwhelmingly domminated. South Carolina deliberately decided to include nothing else. The "huge Constitutional issues" all come down to "protect slave property" in these documents. Texas mentioned inadequate protection against bandits and Indians: either that is not a Constitutional issue, or it is equivalent to Lincoln's need to protect the nation against the secessionist attack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vareb
Slavery wasn't th cause of Virginia secession. It was the Constitutional issues of an army crossing the state to battle another state. Secession was voted down twice here.
Hmm, why is it that whenever this comes up we do not see a mention of the reason that army is being raised: the four months of secessionist/Confederate actions before Lincoln called for troops, including the violent attack on Ft. Sumter? Why is it that no one who mentions this ever mentions the "Constitutional issue" of the United States defending itself against armed attack? Are we to make believe none of that happened?
Certainly Virginia (and the other Upper South states) faced a difficult situation. NC seems to have seceded reluctantly as well -- and at least in part because they would have been isolated and surrounded if they did not. TN went in a way that must at least givesome credence to the thought that the vote was rigged/compromised by the actions of the secessionist governor.
But what of the US? At what point was the nation deprived of its' right to self-defense? Why is it that only "the South" is to be allowed any rights and powers? What gives "the South" the right to make war, but denies it to the rest of the country?
The Upper South decided they had to join the secessionists attacking the nation. I can understand the anguish of their need; that doesn't mean they did the right thing.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Poll: Many discount slavery as main cause of Civil War
The Constitutional issues that bothered the south concerned slavery i.e., the Constitution was Not protecting the right of citizens to own slaves, Restriction of Slavery in the Territories, fugitive slave laws Not being enforced strictly Enough, etc., etc., etc.
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes."
"...These natural, and apparently adequate means all failing, what will convince them? This, and this only; cease to call slavery wrong, and join them in calling it right. And this must be done thoroughly--done in acts as well as in words. Silence will not be tolerated--we must place ourselves avowedly with them. Senator Douglas's new sedition law must be enacted and enforced, suppressing all declarations that slavery is wrong, whether made in politics, in presses, in pulpits, or in private. We must arrest and return their fugitive slaves with greedy pleasure. We must pull down our Free State constitutions. The whole atmosphere must be disinfected from all taint of opposition to slavery, before they will cease to believe that all their troubles proceed from us.
I am quite aware they do not state their case precisely in this way. Most of them would probably say to us, "Let us alone, do nothing to us, and say what you please about slavery." But we do leave them alone--have never disturbed them--so that, after all, it is what we say, which dissatisfies them. They will continue to accuse us of doing, until we cease saying.
I am also aware they have not, as yet, in terms, demanded the overthrow of our Free State Constitutions. Yet those Constitutions declare the wrong of slavery, with more solemn emphasis, than do all other sayings against it; and when all these other sayings shall have been silenced, the overthrow of these Consitituions will be demanded, and nothing be left to resist the demand. It is nothing to the contrary, that they do not demand the whole of this just now. Demanding what they do, and for the reason they do, they can voluntarily stop nowhere short of this consummation. Holding, as they do, that slavery is morally right, and socially elevating, they cannot cease to demand a full national recognition of it, as a legal right, and a social blessing.
Nor can we justifiably withhold this, on any ground save our conviction that slavery is wrong. If slavery is right, all words, acts, laws, and constitutions against it, are themselves wrong, and should be silenced, and swept away. If it is right, we cannot justly object to its nationality--its universality; if it is wrong, they cannot justly insist upon its extension--its enlargement. All they ask, we could readily grant, if we thought slavery right; all we ask, they could as readily grant, if they thought it wrong. Their thinking it right, and our thinking it wrong, is the precise fact upon which depends the whole controversy..."
Abraham Lincoln, Cooper Union speech, February, 27, 1860.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
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