Great minds (or maybe demented minds) think alike. You posted citing the drug example while I was typing mine.
__________________ "There must be more historians of the Civil War than there were generals figthing in it... Of the two groups, the historians are the more belligerent." David Donald, Lincoln Reconsidered (1961)
Neither side (North or South) had unclean hands leading up to this entire unfortunate episode. That's the best and simplest way for me to articulate my point.
__________________ Ancestors: Cpt. Isaac H. Vincent, CSA - 47th Alabama Infantry, Company I; Sgt. James B. Stamp, CSA - 3rd Alabama Infantry, Company I; Pvt. William Spivey, CSA - 1st Alabama Infantry, Company G, Perote Guards; Rear Admr. Raphael Semmes, CSA Navy, CSS ALABAMA
Sons of Confederate Veterans - Pvt. Augustus Braddy Camp
"It is really extraordinary to find such nerve and genius in a mere boy. With a Pelham on each flank I believe I could whip the world." Lt. Gen. Thomas J. "Stonewall" Jackson
Lest we forget, in 1808 the importation of slaves became illegal. Ships (northern, Spanish, British, Portuguese, Dutch, etc.) continued the traffic into the Caribbean and South America. (It might well here be noted that the southern US purchase of slaves was miniscule compared to the entire trade.) But the trade continued between the slave-purchasers and the Caribbean countries.
I don't blame the entire south for its harboring of a few who would continue the trade; nor do I blame the entire north for its harboring of a few ship owners who went for the enormous profits inherent in the pitiful cargoes. Shifting the cause of the war to greedy shipowners in the north is apparently a spurious attempt to avoid admitting the real cause: slavery.
"Now look at what you made me do!"
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
On another board, a newbie brought up an entirely new (to me) line of thought: The war came because the southern society, hopelessly out of step with the developing world, adamantly insisted on remaining in an out-dated stasis.
And now, I believe I'll move this thread to a more appropriate forum.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Neither side (North or South) had unclean hands leading up to this entire unfortunate episode. That's the best and simplest way for me to articulate my point.
TGP17,
Then the Civil War just "happened?"
Both sides began shooting and killing one another in the hundreds of thousands because both sides "had unclean hands?"
"If you do it, then its OK for me to do it too?"
WRONG.
The bringing and establishment of slaves in this country could not have been done without the complicity of the North in the transporting of slaves by ship from Africa to the United States. The need for that traffic by Northern ships would not have been needed except for the demand of slaves by the slaveholding South. Historical fact.
But by the time of 1861 and the firing on Fort Sumter by Confederate forces in Charleston, SC, the South had made it position perfectly clear. It was seceding over THE issue of slavery. It wanted to expand slavery throughout US territories and into Mexico and South America. It wanted to protect slavery and there were even calls to reopen the African Slave Trade.
In contrast, in the North, slavery had died out or was in its very last stages. They didn't call them Free States because they didn't charge federal taxes but because there was no slavery and no support for it in those States. There were continuing and growing support to limit the spread of slavery throughout the nation and to prevent its spread into the territories. This was THE issue of the 1860 election and it was the election of Lincoln and the Republican Party who advocated this policy that brought on the war. Slavery tore the Union apart.
One MUST view the history of the period and the history leading up to the war in order to fully appreciate the facts that brought it on. General phrases like, "there were no unclean hands" is a milksop and is simply an attempt to cloud the issue of what really brought on the war.
How slavery was established in this country is one thing, why the Civil War began is quite another.
IMO.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Great minds (or maybe demented minds) think alike. You posted citing the drug example while I was typing mine.
I thank you for that compliment.
I, too, have often admired your posts of reply for their directness and common sense.
May demented minds rule our replys.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
However, because of it, The United States of America is the greatest Nation in the World that was built on the backs of slaves.
Every item we have today can be traced back to SLAVERY!!
Just a bit of hyperbole, don't you think?
EVERY ITEM we have today can be traced to slavery? Kind of degrades the contributions of all but slaves, don't you think?
__________________ "There must be more historians of the Civil War than there were generals figthing in it... Of the two groups, the historians are the more belligerent." David Donald, Lincoln Reconsidered (1961)
However, because of it, The United States of America is the greatest Nation in the World that was built on the backs of slaves.
Every item we have today can be traced back to SLAVERY!!
Utter & complete, hogwash.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
That slavery was the issue that caused the CW in my mind is without question.
Looking at from a regional stand point, in this case I'll use the Trans-Miss there can be no question that slavery had a direct effect on splitting the nation in two.
Missouri Compromise-Slavery issues
Kansas Nebraska Act -Slavery Issue's
Bleeding Kansas/Border wars 1856-1861 Free Soil/ Slave State issues - Slavery issues. And an unrecgonized but virtual civil war.
So if slavery is no issue then why did these events and legislation even occur.
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