Poll: Many discount slavery as main cause of Civil War

[Parrott Gun]

Interesting story unionblue,

I didn't know that slavery ever existed in Ohio. I'm guessing this was prior to the Northwest ordinance?

[unionblue]

Originally Posted by Parrott Gun

Interesting story unionblue,

I didn't know that slavery ever existed in Ohio. I'm guessing this was prior to the Northwest ordinance?

Parrot Gun,

To be honest, this is where the story falls apart.

All of the information I got was local lore, nothing was written down nor did I ever view any historical records.

When you mention the Northwest ordinance, it sort of calls my whole story into question, doesn't it?

How COULD "Old Man Reese" had slaves in central Ohio in the early 1800s if slavery was banned from the region? Or was the story of "Old Man Reese" a LOT older than I thought it was? Was he there in the 18th century? Or is the part about him owning slaves just wrong? Or did he own more than one plantation? One in Ohio and others elsewhere in the South where he DID use slaves?

A whole new can of historical worms opened just by one question by a fellow board member! Ain't this forum great?

I just always took the story as is because the local folk had repeated such for as long as I was growing up there.

I'll go back and modify my post to reflect that this all was local lore and not verified, historical fact.

Thanks for the reconsideration and a well-asked question.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

[OpnDownfall]

Historically, there was great agitation all across the Nothern states, concerning the growing suspicion that there was, in fact, a southern conspiracy to place the yoke of slavery on every state in the Union.
Whether there was such a conspiracy, is immaterial to the fact that it was believed by many people in the North at the time. So a concern over slavery was not necessarily out of mind in the voting north in 1860. In fact, the Dred Scott affair, and the events leading up to and following,Taney's decision was seen by many northerners as evidence of just such a conspiracy.
IMO, the issue of slavery was very much on the minds of the Avg voter in the north in 1860.

[timewalker]

Seems to me that perhaps the rhetoric on both sides was getting out of control. Hyperbole as political strategy. The Southern states complained that the North was plotting to take away all their slaves and encourage miscegination. The Northern states complained that the South was plotting to force slavery back on the North. While there were no doubt radicals in the North and the South who held these extreme positions, both radically overstated that mainstream political agendas.

But as we see in politcs even today, it is easier to attack your opponent if you grossly overstate his position.

[OpnDownfall]

...And, more importantly, the propensity of voters to tend to believe one wild claim over another (for varying reasons) is a constant, in politics (and in the starting of many wars)

[TheGallantPelham17]

Originally Posted by unionblue

I appreciate your efforts at digging out this information on James Getty.

Sincerely,
Unionblue
PS No comment on WHY the South left the Union?

Page 19 of The History Buff's Guide to Gettysburg.

The reason the South left the Union was because of "all of the above". Many reasons (such as the South feeling too culturally different), including slavery.

[TheGallantPelham17]

Originally Posted by ole

Point made. That Gettys owned slaves is irrelevant.

Several northerners owned slaves in the early days of the Union. And a case can be made that many northerners made a good living off the illegal slave-trade after 1808 -- that can't be denied. But having a few greedy and uncrupulous ****** in the north does not mean that the Confederacy acted innocently in kicking off what might be the most self-destructive conflict in the history of mankind.

Or that the north bore some responsibility in the same conflict.


ole

I wouldn't say that Getty owning slaves was totally irrelevant. It's very ironic to say the least. And there were five slave states that remained in the Union when the War began which is certainly significant.

I blame slavery largely on the Massachusetts slave traders who made millions of dollars by pulling native peoples out of Africa and forcing them on ships bound for the U.S.A.

The entire U.S. is to blame for slavery and for the outbreak of the War.

I'm about ready to put this thread to bed since I'm the only Confederate over here stating my case. I'm a pretty tenacious person, but I'm getting worn out over here!

[ole]

I blame slavery largely on the Massachusetts slave traders who made millions of dollars by pulling native peoples out of Africa and forcing them on ships bound for the U.S.A.

So if it wasn't for northern ship-owners, slavery would have died out in the south?

ole

[unionblue]

Originally Posted by TheGallantPelham17

Page 19 of The History Buff's Guide to Gettysburg.

The reason the South left the Union was because of "all of the above". Many reasons (such as the South feeling too culturally different), including slavery.

"...including slavery."

Well, thank you for that much sir.

Myself, I find such phrases as "all of the above" merely an attempt to dilute the actual cause, that of slavery, but I can see why you would be partial to such a stand.

I wonder if I might ask you a question.

Would drug pushers and cartels in South America do any business and make millions upon millions of dollars in drug trafficing if NO ONE in the United States used illegal drugs?

Yes, it is a trick question.

And it should not absolve those who push drugs upon those who use them.

The Slave Trade made many shipowners in the North wealthly men because of their odius traffic in human flesh. But if there had been no market, what then? Perhaps they might have continued to sell their slaves by having their ships sail to South America where the traffic was high, Turning a buck is an American compulsion. And this is why slavery in the United States should be considered an AMERICAN sin, not just solely a Southern one.

And there were attempts to stop the Slave Trade from Africa, but when one delves a little bit into the history of the trade, one sees Southern politicians in the US government, from Presidents, Secretary's of the US Navy, Naval commanders, etc., doing their dead-level best to cripple the efforts to stop the trade with any effectiveness. Read some books or articles on the US Navy's Slave Patrol. Breaks your heart at times.

But the bottom line in history is the South left the Union over the issue of slavery and it remained its primary cause for bringing on the Civil War. The sins of the past does nothing to negate this historical truth.

IMO.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

[timewalker]

I guess no blame falls on any of those British slave traders.

And, of course, the drug problem in the United States is all the result of those who transport the drugs from Columbia to the United States and not the result of either the cartels in Columbia or the users in the United States.