The Ladies TeaStop in and grab a quick cup of tea! All sorts of ladies issues are disscussed here. Both Ladies and Gentlemen are welcome to join in the conversations.
This grew out of the "How Authentic Should You Be" thread, which we had already hijacked enough.
Since there still seems to be a school of thought that the jacket/blouse/skirt combination was a high fashion statement made only of silks and wools and worn by the young, I thought I'd share some of my findings, although not all at once.
First, let's get some basics down: Below, two variations of the same look on dated CDVs. The first, Miss Lola DeCosta, Providence, Rhode Island, October 8, 1961. This, I would say, is a fashionable turnout. The second, unnamed but dated Sept. 20, 1864, is a somewhat less fashionable variation. Agree or disagree?
I don't want to "stir the pot", but it looks like Mrs. DeCosta is wearing a fitted bodice with a white area where the buttons are - giving the illusion that she is wearing a jacket blouse combo.....
The second lady, while she is wearing a white blouse with a patterned skirt, appears to be wearing a "jacket". As in, "it was cold outside, so she put on a jacket." Almost paletote in style. It does not appear to be a style that was worn everywhere (inside and out), like the zouave jacket was known for (like today's blazer).
I agree with you there that the first one seems to be a fitted bodice instead of a blouse.
The second one is very strange. The lady in the picture appears to be no more than 25, yet she is wearing mitts. By the late 1860's, usually the only women wearing them were a bit older (mid 40+).
Aside from that, the coat is probably a paletot. I would have to say the woman on the right was an exception, rather than the norm.
Edit: Kat, you may want to edit where it says "1961"
__________________ "Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
OF course she is. There was no doubt of that.
What is this going to prove?
__________________ "Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
John 3:20-21
Last edited by southern_belle1861; 12-12-2006 at 05:33 PM.
Look, there is no reason to get testy! Because I have no way of knowing who anyone is personally, what their age is, their experience, their level of education, their amount of formal history training, their training in costuming and textiles, etc., etc., I need a way to benchmark opinions. I already know what my interpretation is; I just want to see what you all think and have fun with this.
It takes a fair amount of time for me to sort images, scan, and mark them. If you'd rather not play, that's fine with me. I thought people would be interested in seeing a range of information about the outfit a lot of people don't seem to want to admit existed.
I had already found this one and, as it is not one of mine personally, it is no skin off my nose to share it.
What I wanted to know is, using the benchmark above of what is less fashionable (a one) to very fashionable (a ten), where on the scale would this outfit would rank:
I didn't mean to sound testy I don't think you can put these in a scale as the social status of each lady seems to be different. I think this would be like taking your average working class lady and Nicole Kidman and asking on that scale how fashionable I am or you are! You can't compare....
Without documentary evidence, there is no way to know anything about the social scale of a person in a photo (which is one reason why photos are a weak form of primary evidence). Someone could have borrowed a fancy outfit just for a photo sitting. Or been dressed down because they had the photo done on the fly (unplanned). I'm just trying to get face-value judgements on what people think rates as higher fashion as opposed to lower, without taking the wearer into account. I'm just looking at the outfit, not trying to speculate on the person's background. And I like to hear other people's judgement on the outfit as to whether they think it is dressy or not. It helps to start with the extremes of low to high to gauge anything in between. It is interesting (for me) to hear other people's reactions. Except when no one wants to play, and then, I'm afraid, I have no one to ask except the cats and they generally hold their counsel! ;-)
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How Authentic should your jacket/blouse/skirt be? 
I don't think you can put these in a scale as the social status of each lady seems to be different. I think this would be like taking your average working class lady and Nicole Kidman and asking on that scale how fashionable I am or you are! You can't compare....
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