The Ladies TeaStop in and grab a quick cup of tea! All sorts of ladies issues are disscussed here. Both Ladies and Gentlemen are welcome to join in the conversations.
Well, I know for a fact that that is either silk or polished wool (more than likey silk). If you have seen any fabric from back then that looks like watermark taffeta, let me know. I would love to hear about it. Another question I have is how do you know that the esembles you say are cotton are cotton and not silk?
As I said before, this was an outfit made with fine fabrics such as silk and wool.
Would you mind posting some pictures of outfits like these that are cotton? I would love to see them.
Edit: I just saw your post sandwiched on the last page.haha honestly you can send them to me through email. I won't use. Promise.
__________________ "Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
John 3:20-21
Last edited by southern_belle1861; 11-28-2006 at 01:12 PM.
"Well, I know for a fact that that is either silk or polished wool (more than likey silk)."
Again, without having actually handled the fabric, how can anyone know for a fact what it is? (and I’m not trying to be a pain in the neck here, just trying to determine this.)
"If you have seen any fabric from back then that looks like watermark taffeta, let me know. I would love to hear about it."
If by watermark you mean moiré, I have, and would be able to share this image as it is not one slated for publication. It is a woman in a moiré dress and I believe the image is British (have not looked at it in awhile). But please realize that I work full-time and have other obligations that preclude my dropping everything to dig this out of the archives and scan it. It would be at least this Sunday before I could even think about it.
"Another question I have is how do you know that the esembles you say are cotton are cotton and not silk?"
I’m using either written primary source documentation or actual clothing pieces. This has to do with the way I was trained as a historian. I use photographs as documentation of a visual image, but not to drill down and make definitive statements as to details like what textile is used or what color. A shiny surfaced fabric could as easily be polished cotton as it could a dull silk; a cotton muslin could as easily be a wool muslin. By using written documentation, actual pieces, and the CDVs together, I’ll posit what I feel something is made of.
"As I said before, this was an outfit made with fine fabrics such as silk and wool."
When did wool get added to the mix? This started out with silk! :-)
Given that documentation shows common calico selling at between $6 and $12 per yard, when available at all, cotton fabrics in some regions of the country become more expensive than silks.
Also, having written extensively about the mill industry in Britain in the 1800s (dull, technical stuff, to be sure – don’t wait for the movie to come out!), I have to say that the cotton fabrics being produced in this period are themselves considered to be fine fabrics. I don’t have the figures in front of me, in fact, I would have to unearth the boxes of research to get at them, but suffice to say that Britain had cornered the world market in production of cottons and these were far removed from the cotton cloth we are accustomed to today.
Mills in America tried to combat the flood of British-made goods but could never quite reach the same standards, although some American-produced cottons were considered to be fine fabrics.
So … “fine fabrics” can include other things than silk and wool.
On the flip side of this, the skirt/jacket ensemble could be made of silk and wool, especially when older, out-of-style dresses were remade or when dresses wore out and their skirts were reused. An article in the May 1863 issue of Peterson’s reads: Grenadines, organdies, and, in fact, all the thin summer goods are very much risen in price, so that the present fashion of wearing old skirts, with Spanish and Zouave jackets, is a most convenient one. … We have seen these pretty jackets in velvet, silk, and cloth; and we may here add that they are very useful for wearing with old skirts, the bodices of which are worn out. Those in velvet are decidedly the most stylish. … A VELVET ZOUAVE JACKET is very frequently worn at this season of the year over a white muslin skirt for evening toilet. The jacket does not reach further than the waistband; and underneath it is worn a satin veste. These Zouave jackets are convenient for wearing with light colored taffetas skirts, the bodices of which have either lost their freshness, or have become ancient in form. A white lace or muslin veste can be worn instead of a satin one, and the Zouave can be trimmed with a black Maltese insertion, with white ribbon underneath it. This style, although not novel, is a very favorite one.
"Would you mind posting some pictures of outfits like these that are cotton? I would love to see them. Edit: I just saw your post sandwiched on the last page.haha honestly you can send them to me through email. I won't use. Promise."
Again, much of what I have is marked for publication and I’m not able to reproduce it. My partner is currently cataloging everything; if there are ones that will not be used, I will consider posting them but only as my time allows. And if it is only one or two images, then it is one or two images. I’m not getting into one of these “it’s only one, it’s not conclusive, show me another” arguments. Been there, done that, kept the CDVs.
I’m doing a handspinning demonstration in Delaware this weekend and am trying to focus on getting ready for that. In addition to my weaving projects, I’m aiming at finally making my husband’s and mine 1560’s outfits from the bolts of wool that have been bagged in the corner of the dining room for about a year and a half. I’ve been so far removed from anything Civil War related other than preparing two publications that I’m not focused on the reenactor clothing angle. Sorry. I didn’t want to get pulled into yet another version of the same argument that has been circulating seemingly forever, just to encourage the original poster to keep on her quest. I would’ve thought someone other than me has researched this topic more in depth over the past 5 years!
I think you're right about the 1860's thing. The hoop/cage/whatever is quite small. Maybe a working hoop?
__________________ "Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
Yes that is what I mean. I think the terms are used are interchangable.
The one on the left has a very strange texture...
__________________ "Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
It is difficult to pick up with the scan, but the fabric texture seems tight and smooth. I think it is the "watermarking" of the fabric that makes it look textured. This is an extremly loud moire, although consistent with others from the time period that I've seen.
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