The Ladies TeaStop in and grab a quick cup of tea! All sorts of ladies issues are disscussed here. Both Ladies and Gentlemen are welcome to join in the conversations.
I am so glad you are back in the parlor. Redeye may be a schizoid horse, but it ain't easy being a Yankee girl who wants to be a southern belle, either.
Would you look at my posts (and Redeye's) above and give your honest answers regarding whether or not, and under what circumstances, a man might take offense at a woman? Redeye and I seem to have hit upon a part of our discussion where, for our own clarity, a man's viewpoint would be helpful.
Been a while since I checked into the parlor, but let me venture my own two cents worth here.
Under what circumstances would a man take offense at a woman? Of the current day and age or the time of the Civil War?
Hmmmm. I must admit I give this opinion from somewhat of a disadvantage. I was raised up to respect and be polite to women, to open doors, call them miss or mrs. and was somewhat in awe of them.
Most of the older women I knew had gone through the Great Depression and were simple in their outlook and view of things. They considered themselves partners with their mates, not an inferior. Never detected that at the family gatherings or Thanksgiving dinners or at Christmas.
Now the ladies would back up their 'man' in public, but chatting together in their parlors, it could get pretty 'blue' at times discussing the menfolk.
Then in the Army, I was trained to not discriminate against race, color, or sex, that each person had something to contribute. I knew long before the Movie Gettysburg that you could not judge a race or a sex as a group, but as one individual at a time.
I have had the honor of serving in the military with one of the greatest women I have ever known, First Sergeant "Beckie" Hibbs, 50 years old, an ex-nun, and one of the finest soldiers I have ever known. I did not base my like or dislike of Beckie on her sex, but her treatment of me and my fellow soldiers. She taught me that, and I will never forget her.
So, a bit of Zou's thinking for me. Let's treat each other as people, vice men and women, and yes, due to those unchangeable differences, it's tough, but not impossible.
YMOS,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Neil sir, you have a very good outlook about people and about women. Very good. I guess I am a bit old fashioned too. I like my doors opened very much. I like the respect and I think that men deserve the same. Yes they are told to be strong but they are people the same as women are. You, Neil, see women and other people as people and that is good. You don't see them as something totally different to you but see them as people who complement you in life. You I would consider are a gentleman
My thanks to you Lorrie, as I recall that I have been called many things in my life, but to be called a gentleman is truly one of the greatest compliments of my life.
I wish to make clear a few things. I do think it takes a man a bit longer than women to mature. Way too often men don't think, but react. I have often told my daughter that she could expect to see a mature, loving, thoughtful man at about the age of 50, and then to be very careful and do more research!
As LongstreetLass has stated, there is a physical difference between men and women and via that difference! But way too many times, the boy/man lets that difference interfere with his relationship with women. I wish it were not so so much, but there it is. Maybe in this regard, men are inferior.
But the sweetest time of my life has been when I have had a friend and a partner, not a rival.
Be patient ladies, sometimes it takes us a while, but most of us guys turn out to be worth the effort when we suddenly realize it ain't just the bedroom, but life in general that our friends the ladies can be when in true partnership with us men.
Just an opinion,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
I believe Lorrie said it all. You are such a fine man that I think Redeye and I ought to go back to that idea about cloning you!
It also takes women a while to grow up and to stop expecting men to be like women. I really wish the essential differences (and I don't mean just "sex education") were taught in school. I also wish that, along with that kind of instruction, boys and girls were taught how to behave around the opposite sex.
Men are not inferior: they serve a different purpose than women in the scheme of things. These differences are so important, but that has been lost or needs to be reinforced in some way in our culture.
Neil, there is also, for a woman, nothing on earth sweeter than a man's care and attention.
Lass,
Good to have you back in the parlor. I was concerned that some wandering poet had swept you away to a world of beautiful sunrises and lavish attention.
Under what circumstances might a man take offense at a woman?
I think that you are generally correct in that men as a rule are less likely to be as concerned with how other people view them. For the most part I believe men are less likely to take offense at comments whether they be made by women or other men. Of course the amount of tenderness to slights that one exhibits are often a function of the level of personal importance attached to the specific context of the slight. For instance, I have known men who were extremely sensitive in some areas and quite callous in others. If a man is career oriented, specifically geared toward professional advancement, this person is much more likely to take offense at the slightest deprecations to his professional abilities. This same man may for all intents and purposes ignore remarks made by the same person belittling other aspects of his personality. I think the same can be said for women as well.
Our sensitivities to slights have more to do with our own personal view of ourselves than anything else.
I would be very interested to read exactly what "essential differences" would comprise the curriculum at the school you suggest; it should make for a very interesting class.
Dark Prince, Son of Sons of a Great Highland King,
Yes, I nearly did get swept off by a poet! I can only say that, alas, he is not a southerner; and I need say no more about that.
By "essential differences," I mean the differences in temperament, or psychology, that our different biologies seem to create. We had spoken earlier about the difference in function between men and women, based in our separate biologies.
I do believe, as Redeye has often pointed out, that men and women have things in common. However, I also know how often in my life I have misinterpreted men.
As a girl, I would have appreciated some guidance about how men think, as it became clear to me that they do think differently. Emotionally, we all have our wants and needs, which may not differ so much; but the way men and women approach those wants and needs is very different.
Lass,
As a young man I definitely could have used some guidance as to how women think as well. However, as a young man I am not sure that I was willing to accept guidance on anything; I seem to have preferred to learn many things the hard way.
If you were to lay out a course on the differences in the way men and think where would you start? Priorities? Tendencies? Or perhaps the basic biological drives that at times seem so different?
I have wondered exactly what I would pass on to my own daughter as to the ability to understand men were I to be able to somehow pass this knowledge directly into her consciousness. At any rate, it makes for interesting conjecture to speculate on the possiblities. Maybe that is actually the answer; an informal discussion environment between the sexes where such things could honestly be discussed.
Why don't we start here, then? I will take a stab at starting a list, one column for men and the other for women:
Biological Drive
Men -
more direct
externalized
may or may not have emotional connection to object of desire
Women -
indirect, but based in biogical urge to make babies
internalized
everything is connected to the emotions
That's it, for now. All I could think of. We can also start a list for tendencies, priorities, and behavior. If you think of something else to add here, please do. If you think something is wrong or misstated, please add a note to the column.
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