The Ladies TeaStop in and grab a quick cup of tea! All sorts of ladies issues are disscussed here. Both Ladies and Gentlemen are welcome to join in the conversations.
Just to bring this thread a bit more back on line (ie the subject of love during the Civil War) I thought I would include this passage from the book "The Expansion of Everyday Life 1860-1876" Copyright 1989, by Daniel E. Sutherland.
From the chapter entitled "A Soldier's Life" starting at page 15.
"Not a few soldiers craved nothing more than the sight, scent, and sound of a female. Occasionally, local girls or the female relations of officers visited the camps. Only infrequently did private soldiers get close enough to these ladies to speak with them, but the very presence of skirts and parasols was electrifying. "Who could describe the effect of their appearance in camp!" exclaimed a romantically inclined Virginian. "The produced conflict in the soldier's breast. They looked so clean, they were so gentle, they were so different from all around them, they were so attractive, they were so agreeable, and sweet, and fresh, and happy, that the poor fellows would have liked above all things to have gotten very near to them and have heard their kind words." Other men, far from content with looking, sought sexual gratification among the looser women in camp. Early in the war, numerous camp followers hired their services as cooks and laundresses to the armies. As campaigning became more rigorous and discipline more rigid, their numbers declined. Most often, then, soldiers had to seek out women while on furlough or in clandestine meetings without official leave. All evidence suggests they found plenty of frolicsome wenches. "The state of morals is quite as low as the soil," complained one Reb in Alabama, "almost all the women are given to whoredom & are the ugliest, sallowfaced, shaggy headed, bare footed dirty wretches you ever saw." The war had "demoralized everybody" along the Georgia-Tennessee border, regretted another Confederate. Young girls smoked, drank whiskey, and chewed tobacco, and "almost half of the women in the vicinity of the army, married and unmarried, are lost to all virtue."
Men encamped near large towns and cities naturally had the best opportunities to enjoy female companionship, whatever their choice in women. They could meet utterly respectable ladies at church socials, Sanitary Commission fairs, and other civilized occasions. If a man sought more than polite conversation, he headed for the fleshpots. Every town had them. The capitals of the warring nations, Washington and Richmond, had the most impressive array of bawdy houses, gambling dens, and gin houses. "Go to the Capitol Square any afternoon," reported a shocked Confederate from Richmond, "and you may see these women promenading up and down the shady walks jostling respectable ladies into the gutters." Washington, where larger numbers of men and a greater abundance of cash made prostitution even more profitable, was worse. Houses of ill fame occupied whole blocks along the south side of Pennsylvania Avenue. Soldier clientele christened their favorite houses with such colorful names as the "Wolf's Den" (operated by a Mrs. Wolf), the "Haystack," and the "Bake Oven." "I had a gay old time I tell you," reported a New England soldier after visiting Washington; "Lager Beer and...in the evening Horizontal Refreshments or in Plainer words Riding a Dutch gal." Memphis during federal occupation earned a reputation as the Gormorrah of the West. "Memphis," claimed an Ohio soldier, "can boast of being of the first places of female prostitution on the continent. Virtue is scarcely known within the limits of the city." If one judges from the cases of venereal disease in the armies, more than a few men took advantage of the situation. Statistics for the Confederate army are incomplete, but Union records reveal that eithty-two out of every one thousand men suffered from some form of V.D.
Love in the Civil War? I guess it was where you found it!
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
I found this letter, reading it I was struck by the similarities to our modern internet romances.
Letter from an unknown Union soldier, in the 11th New York Battery, writing February 9, 1864. This letter to "Hattie" was written after she responded to his advertisement in a "lonely-hearts" magazine.
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Camp of the 11th NY Battery.
Feby 9th 1864
Dear Hattie
Pardon the affectionate familiarity but you know its all in fun. Your charming little epistle has just reached me, and I do myself the honor to answer it immediately, thus complying with your request to write soon.
Before proceeding ****her truth and candor compel me to acknowledge that a little desception was used in the advertisement in the "Waverly." In other words my true description differs materially from the one therein set forth, and may not please you as well as the one "fancy painted," but I thought it was all for fun, therefore funningly gave a fictitious description as well as cognomen. Be it known unto you then, this individual is twenty-nine years of age, five feet and eleven inches high, dark blue eyes, brown hair, and light (ruddy) complexion. There you have it. How do you like the descripion? Me thinks I hear you answer. I dont like it so well as the advertised description. Well! I'll admit it is not quite so fascinating to a young lady as the fictitious one, but it is a fixed fact, "like the laws of the Medes and Persians," which altereth not. But enough of that topic for the present! The next thing, will undoubtedly be something else.
It is said, that a person's writing is indication of their character, if so, judging from your letter, I take you to be of one that class know as "romps" - a class by the way, which I rather admire. Commend me to a girl who has life and animation enough to enjoy the harmless pleasures of this beautiful world, in preference to your "Miss Prim," who would not dare to laugh in louder tones than a whimpering sentimental snicker, for fear of overstepping the bounds of etiquette.
No indeed! None of your "Miss Prims" for me. I love the gaily ringing laugh of true and gladsome hearts. Of course I would not have a young lady act in an imbecoming or unladylike manner, but I believe in giving free scope to thou joyous feelings, implanted in the soul by a wise and kind "creator" to cheer us through life's checkered pathway looking over the -----. Could you have been within hearing distance when I read you letter, you would have heard a laugh that made this old tent ring, especially when I came to the sentence, "Sing Heigh Ho for a husband" - I just laid back in my chair + roared - thats decidedly rich! I don't suppose that you entertain thoughts of Matrimony. Who ever knows a young lady that did? but if so you have my best wishes that your song may be speedily answered, on condition, that I have an invitation to the wedding.
You say you have returned from boarding school for a few months on account of delicate health. No doubt it is great treat for you, to again be, with the loved ones at home. I do not wonder at your hating boarding school, for as generally conducted they are about as injurious to girls health, as beneficial to her education. I firmly believe that hundreds of girls die annually from the pernicious effects of boarding school training. I presume the description given of yourself is partly fictitious. I aught not to doubt a lady word, but am aware that in correspondence of this character a great deal of description is generally used.
I promised on the honor of a gentleman and soldier that I have thus far given a true description of myself, it remains for me to add that I was formerly a private, but am now a Lieut in Uncle Samuel's service and that my true name is signed to this letter. Enclosed please find carte-de-visites of your incognito, when you answer this which I hope you will do without fail - be kind enough to give a correct description and enclose a carte-de-visite, or Photograph, of your own sweet self.
The enclosed picture is not as good as it might be - they eyes are too light, the features however and general expression of the countenance are natural.
You ask for a description of "camp life," but I have written so much other stuff I will defer that until another time, suffice it to say the "Blue Jackets" are pretty comfortably situated - for soldiers - in winter quarters, where they will probably remain until the time comes for then sally forth to me - the nailorous "grey back" in battle array. When that time shall
[The letter ends abruptly and without a signature. This perhaps was continued on another page.]
It seems we're taking shifts in this thread, LongstreetLass. I wish I had been more present but my computer time is still very limited.
Neil, you've said very well what my muddled brain tried to express. The definition of gentleman indeed fits you. And I'm glad that my fears that our male comrades would find our discussions too heated were unfounded. These are the cases I like to be proven wrong!
I generally agree with LL's list, though I think one always should bear in mind that it describes maybe a majority but not all individuals. I've sadly known women personally whose maternal instinct was utterly lacking, to the point of indifference towards their children as infants or spite towards them as adults, with terrible consequences.
I've also realized that probably one of the reasons I insist less on differences and more on similarities has a personal basis. For some reason I'm attracted to men just as withdrawn as I am; so, in my case, similarities wrecked my relationships, not differences. Maybe in the 19th century those codified rules such as ballroom behaviour helped those like me to meet and interact, while today we're mostly left to ourselves and a bit scared by more outgoing manners. But I also think that fending off for one's self helps building the character.
Neil and Aphillbilly, thanks for the quotes. The Virginian's romantic words about the ladies in camp makes me understand my male friend from the re-enactment group who disapproved of me wearing the uniform because us women are better than that. For one who looks for spiritual and aesthetic comfort from the horrors of war, even a fake war, it must be disheartening to see us covered in mud and with our hair pulled back. But he's quite impressed with my progresses with loading the musket. The letter was also interesting and just goes to show what a wide variety of behaviours and personalities could be found. The guy was funny, I would not have minded writing back to him!
Sweet, fresh, and happy, indeed! Happy to be back!
Neil and Aphillbilly, thank you so very much for posting the pieces above. Yes, it is a good idea to bring this thread back to center. Also, please read Connie's quoted material next door, which gives a very different idea of what relationship was like in the WBTS era.
I want to make a personal comment here, especially regards Neil's material above: I cannot stand to be away from the company of men for very long, though this female viewpoint seems to be seldom expressed, or it is expressed in a way that makes women appear to be lacking virtue. Any comments on this?
Redeye, I know what a relief it sometimes is to be covered in mud, scratched up, bruised, hair disheveled, and smelly. Men sometimes seem to like me that way, too; and I do not know why. Perhaps it can also be a comfort for men to know that a woman is willing to do something difficult or work alongside them.
Anyway, thanks for the posts, everyone. (Where's the Prince?)
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I wish I had been more present but my computer time is still very limited. 
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