Civil War History - "What if..." DiscussionsWhat if they had attacked instead of digging in...? What if he was in charge of the army instead...? Did you ever have a "What if..." question, and you weren't sure where to post it? Here's the place to ask these speculative questions!
After Lee was forced to evcuate Petersburg he hoped to move his army into North Carolina and join forces with Johnston. If he had made it into North Carolina and linked up with Johnston, how much longer would the war have lasted? My guess is, a few more weeks. Maybe a couple of more battles. What do the rest of you think?
After Lee was forced to evcuate Petersburg he hoped to move his army into North Carolina and join forces with Johnston. If he had made it into North Carolina and linked up with Johnston, how much longer would the war have lasted? My guess is, a few more weeks. Maybe a couple of more battles. What do the rest of you think?
If he had made it, he could have joined up with Joe Johnston. Between them, they might have come up with a force of 60,000 men. Maybe 70,000. Tough troops, with a lot of good officers for a force that size.
Opposed to them would be Sherman (with about 100,000 men now that he has joined with Schofield near Goldsborough) and Grant (not sure how many, exactly, but at least another 100,000). So here we have Grant and Sherman with some 200,000+ of the best and toughest troops in the Union army, well-officered and organized. There are some other Union forces near enough to be called on if needed; there's a cavalry raid moving East through the mountains, about 4,000 troops under Stoneman.
Essentially, it is possible Lee and Johnston (with Hardee and Longstreet and some other famous names) might have caught and smashed some finger of the Yankee hand reaching for them. But facing odds of over 3:1 means they will inevitably be confined and worn down -- if not ground into dust -- and the faster they can find an honorable way to surrender, the better.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
If he had made it, he could have joined up with Joe Johnston. Between them, they might have come up with a force of 60,000 men. Maybe 70,000. Tough troops, with a lot of good officers for a force that size.
Opposed to them would be Sherman (with about 100,000 men now that he has joined with Schofield near Goldsborough) and Grant (not sure how many, exactly, but at least another 100,000). So here we have Grant and Sherman with some 200,000+ of the best and toughest troops in the Union army, well-officered and organized. There are some other Union forces near enough to be called on if needed; there's a cavalry raid moving East through the mountains, about 4,000 troops under Stoneman.
Essentially, it is possible Lee and Johnston (with Hardee and Longstreet and some other famous names) might have caught and smashed some finger of the Yankee hand reaching for them. But facing odds of over 3:1 means they will inevitably be confined and worn down -- if not ground into dust -- and the faster they can find an honorable way to surrender, the better.
Tim
I am not sure Lee and Johnston between them could have come up with an effective force of 60,000 to 70,000. Desertions were already a problem and many of the troops in the retreat from Petersburg dropped their guns. With Atlanta gone, Petersburg and Richmond gone, Lee and Johnston would have had a devil of a time supplying their force, would they not?
Tough fighters, yes, but how much of a fight could they put up by this point?
__________________ "There must be more historians of the Civil War than there were generals figthing in it... Of the two groups, the historians are the more belligerent." David Donald, Lincoln Reconsidered (1961)
I am not sure Lee and Johnston between them could have come up with an effective force of 60,000 to 70,000. Desertions were already a problem and many of the troops in the retreat from Petersburg dropped their guns. With Atlanta gone, Petersburg and Richmond gone, Lee and Johnston would have had a devil of a time supplying their force, would they not?
Tough fighters, yes, but how much of a fight could they put up by this point?
Agreed, but as long as we're doing this, we might as well assume Lee could only have made the trip successfully if he managed to get away cleaner. So no disaster at Sailor's Creek, say, and Pickett doesn't get clobbered as badly at Five Forks. He gets away with a few thousand extra men, and he gets those rations sent to meet him instead of Sheridan getting them.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Lee & Johnston smack between Grant & Sherman... shudder, not a place I would want to be.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Lee & Johnston smack between Grant & Sherman... shudder, not a place I would want to be.
That's much too juicy to be left alone. Lee and Johnston were leading some mighty determined die-hards who did not recognize the meaning of "quit." But they were also ill-equipped, ill-fed, and considerably demoralized.
Sherman, on the other hand had 60,000 men who had just walked 600 miles eating hams, bacon, turkeys, geese, chickens, beef, potatoes and vegetables. They were healthy, well-armed, and many had four years of fighting under their belts.
Grant's people hadn't had the exercise that Sherman's did, but they were also healthy, fit, fed and well-armed.
I will always honor the starving reb with 10 rounds in his haversack for sticking to his post. We don't often see men like that. But such a match-up could only end up with an excessive effusion of blood. I'm quite glad that it didn't happen.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
The more I read about the Army of Tenessee, Like OLE I admire them. I believe they must have had an excellent group of leaders at the company level. Good generals don't hold men together like that.
Good generals might. The generals the Army of Tennessee was cursed with certainly did not have the whathaveyou to do it.
So I have to agree. They (the Army of Tennessee) were able to surrender as some semblance of an army because of some very good NCOs and one must assume true devotion, along with good captains and lieutenants...not good generals or even colonels.
Most stubborn soldiers in the world. Perhaps not the best, but stubborn and tough to the last.
__________________ Do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, you should never wish to do less. - Robert E. Lee
The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just. - Abraham Lincoln
Elennsar, meet PinckneyUSMCRetarded. He has paid his dues. And I'll figure that if you ever want someone to watch your back, PM Pinckney. He's likely older than dirt, but he's a Marine. That's forever.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
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What if Lee had made it into North Carolina? 
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