Civil War History - "What if..." DiscussionsWhat if they had attacked instead of digging in...? What if he was in charge of the army instead...? Did you ever have a "What if..." question, and you weren't sure where to post it? Here's the place to ask these speculative questions!
Where do you get the idea that Johnson was against the war?
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
I don't think he cared about the war, though I doubt he was as enthusiastic as "Honest" Abe. But he was willing to destroy its "humane " reasons for war and make conditions hateful and frightening for former slaves. Grant tried to undo this, but was forced to retreat.
I keep forgetting the North pats itself on the back about the war and ignores what happened to Blacks after the war. Let me remind you:
I don't think he cared about the war, though I doubt he was as enthusiastic as "Honest" Abe.
Ever read anything about President Johnson, a biography or such? I only ask because you use the phrase "I don't think he cared about the war,..."
Myself, I wonder why the man was so determined to keep his home state within the Union and helped direct the military operations that did so.
But he was willing to destroy its "humane " reasons for war and make conditions hateful and frightening for former slaves.
And yet the Radical Republicans thought he was too soft on the South and too quick to bring back Southern representation into the US Congress. He was definately racist in his views toward the former slaves, that cannot be denied, but I don't think you can lay all that was wrong about Reconstruction at his door.
Grant tried to undo this, but was forced to retreat.
What specifically did he do to undo such and why was he forced to retreat?
I keep forgetting the North pats itself on the back about the war and ignores what happened to Blacks after the war. Let me remind you:
If the North pats itself on the back about the war, it should do so from 1863 with the Emancipation Proclamation up until the death of Lincoln. After that history is not too kind, especially after the sell-out of negro sufferage to conclude an election and permit the 14th & 15th amendments to go into cold storeage.
I read past the Civil War, DJ, and this country, both North and South, have a lot to answer for and a lot of sad history to learn from.
The song makes a point of a legacy of the Civil War that was put off for over a 100 years before Civil Rights brought it back to the front burner. Sort of upsets the apple cart about slavery and racism not being an integral part of the war, don't you think?
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Last edited by unionblue : 05-06-2008 at 12:39 AM.
Just barely in the ballpark, gents, but let's try to keep it away from the 20th Century.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
I keep forgetting the North pats itself on the back about the war and ignores what happened to Blacks after the war.
And I keep forgetting that you blame the north solely for the re-enslavement of blacks during and after reconstruction. Unfounded hyperbole.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Howdy Ole, been meaning to get back here but I've been busy unpacking.
Lincoln backed the color codes and segregation of Blacks in Illinois, I presume other industrialized states as well. deToucqville spoke of a South where black and white labor worked side by side. The North- he never saw it.
Segregation was politically a stranglehold on the South the Democratic Party would enjoy for decades, while the GOP would oddly get no support from blacks for either Lincoln's actions in the war, supporting voting rights, or acts to make lynching a Federal crime!
Booth wanted to kidnap Lincoln in order to secure the release of prisoners. That was all he and his pals had in mind. Kind of anti-climatic as far as demands go! With Lincoln captured so near the end of the war, would the kidnapping have prolonged the end?
Lincoln backed the color codes and segregation of Blacks in Illinois, I presume other industrialized states as well. deToucqville spoke of a South where black and white labor worked side by side. The North- he never saw it.
Where do you come up with this stuff? I admit the north cities hand segregated communities within them but blacks and whites did work together in the factories in the north. When is comes to making industrialised only see green..
Quote:
Segregation was politically a stranglehold on the South the Democratic Party would enjoy for decades, while the GOP would oddly get no support from blacks for either Lincoln's actions in the war, supporting voting rights, or acts to make lynching a Federal crime!
DJ, The Free blacks voted Republican until FDR came along in the 1930's and along with Elinor bought the Black American vote to the Democratic party.
The Republicans ignored the Black American vote after Reconstruction so after 60 years of being ignored by the Republicans the Black American Vote switched to the Democratic party and to this day they have not been ignored.
__________________
"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
As states industrialized the states excluded Blacks from the states in the north. This is well documented. Google it.
* Lincoln supported his home state's law, passed in 1853, forbidding blacks to move to Illinois. The Illinois state constitution, adopted in 1848, called for laws to "effectually prohibit free persons of color from immigrating to and settling in this state."
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