Civil War History - "What if..." DiscussionsWhat if they had attacked instead of digging in...? What if he was in charge of the army instead...? Did you ever have a "What if..." question, and you weren't sure where to post it? Here's the place to ask these speculative questions!
Did you look at that list? That's a huge list sir. A huge list. In downtown Louisville, Kentucky. Not out in the middle of nowhere sir.
This is exactly what you have supplied, A LIST, and nothing more.
I know being a POW was tough. I ain't suggestion it weren't. But come on! I'm not talking about them that was marched out into the street and paroled with lead. I'm talking about prisoners who died behind bars. Locked in thier cell without food nor water. Beat to death by brutal jailers. Tortured and tormented for no other reason than the way the slur their are's.
Here is where you run into trouble everytime, Blue.Raider88, you provide NOTHING but your opinion, no facts, no sources, no ORs, no book references, zip, zero, nada, NOTHING. We know what YOU think happened, where's your evidence?
Why cain't you all admit it?
Admit WHAT? That you think it happened in a particular manner? No problem. I admit, that even though you have presented no sources, no reports, no OR's, letters, diaries, books, research, evidence, etc,, YOU think these men and women were all murdered at the direct order of Lincoln the tyrant at the hands of evil Union Provost Marshals. That about right?
You do youselves a disservice as well as them that you're trying to protect.
And you constantly are risking at never being taken seriously as you cannot provide nor undertake the true work it involves to prove you own bias in the faith you have embraced without proof.
If you look through blue tinted lenses, you will never see the truth and it will never set you free!
And turning your back on the tools needed to convince others of your beliefs will forever leave you behind in the history of the period.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
It also needs to be taken into consideration that John Hunt Morgan and since he has been mentioned J.O. Shelby were soliders and not bushwhackers.
Being soliders they were more worried about spreading a tactical version of discontent on the Union forces by attacking targets of military value and thereby hindering the opposing force thru loss of troops and material and logistics.
So IMHO the point is moot. Morgan wasn't a Munday, Anderson or Quantrill. And the people of Kentucky ought to thankful for that.
You'd have to get the Provost Marshalls to tell us how them people died, ole, and they're long gone. But died they did. In the custody of these very same Provost Marshalls we're all talkin' about.
So this means we can expect no effort on your part to provide sources as requested by ole.
That's why I'm down on 'em you see.
And this is why we are "down" on your opinions on this matter.
The sheer lack of evidence or the effort to provide such.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
They're buried in the friggin' cemetery ole. How much more dead can you get?
CONFEDERATE SOLDIERS AND CIVILIANS BURIED IN THE CONFEDERATE SECTIONS AND NATIONAL CEMETERY, CAVE HILL CEMETERY, LOUISVILLE, JEFFERSON COUNTY, KENTUCKY Compiled by Geoffrey R. WaldenSons of Confederate Veterans, Gen. Ben Hardin Helm Camp 1703
The Confederate soldier and veteran lots are located in Section "O" of Cave Hill Cemetery, 701 Baxter Avenue, Louisville, KY. This listing also contains Confederate soldiers and Southern civilians buried in the Cave Hill National Cemetery.
And, by presenting the above, you have proved that Confederate soldiers are buried there. Bravo.
Now show how they died, by who, and how they came to be there.
It's a hard thing, Blue.Raider88, to back up talk. As they have said for a long time, talk is cheap. Evidence is hard.
Opinion is just that, opinion. "Facts are stubborn things" as John Adams once said as he defended the British soldiers who were accused of murder when firing into a mob at Boston. Those folks wanted to string up those soldiers with no trial, no reason, no evidence.
And yet it was proved these men were in fear of their lives and provoked. Thank God for those men who can see past blood and angry emotions and see the consequences of more blood and angry emotion.
Like General Morgan.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
It also needs to be taken into consideration that John Hunt Morgan and since he has been mentioned J.O. Shelby were soliders and not bushwhackers.
Being soliders they were more worried about spreading a tactical version of discontent on the Union forces by attacking targets of military value and thereby hindering the opposing force thru loss of troops and material and logistics.
So IMHO the point is moot. Morgan wasn't a Munday, Anderson or Quantrill. And the people of Kentucky ought to thankful for that.
Exactly.
Excellent post and thank you.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
There is no reason to leave this forum, unless you have been banned. At present, you have not been banned, you have merely been hammered in debate by myself and others.
No blood has been drawn, no limbs lost, we have merely had certain egos bruised or opinions attacked, but in no way has any of us been harmed.
Shane, I am sure you will agree with me that Blue.Raider88 has done nothing other than express his opinion on the topic of this thread. While you and I may not agree with his views on this topic, I have yet to find anything that would bar him from this forum.
That being said, we are all subject to having our pet opinions and views roughly treated here, that is why it is considered a "debate" forum.
But we should not jump the gun nor be premature in our judgements concerning the conduct of our fellow members here.
If we become too jumpy or too judgemental, this board will soon be not worth coming to.
IMO,
Unionblue
PS Blue.Raider88, if you're going to leave, do so because you decide to, not because you think you've been kicked off. My suggestion, just carry on and not refer to the incident that compelled you to think differently and stay within the history of the Civil War.
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Unionblue, Ozark Iron John was banned for conduct unbecoming. If he had been Army the comments that got him banned he would at the very least have collected a letter of reprimand probably an Article 15 and certainly the loss of his command. When he started linking his anti Lincoln/US agenda to the men and women in uniform of today, men and women in harms way for HIS right to speak and think as he does, and then slandering them he stepped over a line that cannot be recrossed in my eyes.
He came back as BlueRaider88. Ami now knows of his deception. It's in her corner. Frankly, I have little respect for someone pretending to be someone else.
The man was shown the door once before, it's up to the mod gods whether he will be shown the door again. Until then... maybe, just maybe he will learn something.
__________________ Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
Take a deep breath, gentlemen. Hold it for a while. Let it go and take another. Close your eyes and think about something very pleasant. Y'all have something pleasant to think about, don't you?
Johan has a new son, Unionblue has grandchildren to spoil, blue.raider has that awesome buckskin....
Let's just be calm and RESERVED! Now, a nap sounds very pleasant.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
No offense meant, it's just that as I get older....well, never mind.
What will be, will be.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Unionblue, you aren't any older. Like Ole you are just wiser.
I can tolerate a lot of garbage. Very little really sets me off. Racism, child abuse, rape and slandering soldiers are really about all I can't forgive. Ozark Iron John has accomplished half of the above on this site and after he was banned last night he went so far as to threaten me and insult my wife and children via email. I've been threatened and insulted by better men, doesn't really bother me.
Ami & Mike have banned very few people here, I think the number is less than 10 since I joined back in 2001. W/in that number are IIRC at least 3 who were banned and came back as different user names so the number is actually probably less. Those that have been banned sorely deserved it.
I applaud your defence of the man, your patience and your integrity do you great credit.
__________________ Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
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