Civil War History - "What if..." DiscussionsWhat if they had attacked instead of digging in...? What if he was in charge of the army instead...? Did you ever have a "What if..." question, and you weren't sure where to post it? Here's the place to ask these speculative questions!
You'd have to get the Provost Marshalls to tell us how them people died, ole, and they're long gone. But died they did. In the custody of these very same Provost Marshalls we're all talkin' about.
I'm talking about prisoners who died behind bars. Locked in thier cell without food nor water. Beat to death by brutal jailers. Tortured and tormented for no other reason than the way the slur their are's.
Raider88, Lost inside another post on this board we discussed Lincoln and his military courts during the Civil War. We learned that must of the military courts trails were hailed in the border states of MO. KY, and MD and over time moved into other none border states. These military courts did put thousands of people in jail. They were not consider POW's but criminals.
Raider88, you should if not need to find evidence supporting such remarks you have posted.
I think your whole logic that started this post was foolish. Morgan believed in chivalry so he would not have killed your hated Provost Marshals without cause. I think it a lost cause...as a "what if" but again you are a "lost causer"
__________________
"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
They're buried in the friggin' cemetery ole. How much more dead can you get?
CONFEDERATE SOLDIERS AND CIVILIANS BURIED IN THE CONFEDERATE SECTIONS AND NATIONAL CEMETERY, CAVE HILL CEMETERY, LOUISVILLE, JEFFERSON COUNTY, KENTUCKY Compiled by Geoffrey R. WaldenSons of Confederate Veterans, Gen. Ben Hardin Helm Camp 1703
The Confederate soldier and veteran lots are located in Section "O" of Cave Hill Cemetery, 701 Baxter Avenue, Louisville, KY. This listing also contains Confederate soldiers and Southern civilians buried in the Cave Hill National Cemetery.
Did you look at that list? That's a huge list sir. A huge list. In downtown Louisville, Kentucky. Not out in the middle of nowhere sir.
I know being a POW was tough. I ain't suggestion it weren't. But come on! I'm not talking about them that was marched out into the street and paroled with lead. I'm talking about prisoners who died behind bars. Locked in thier cell without food nor water. Beat to death by brutal jailers. Tortured and tormented for no other reason than the way the slur their are's.
Why cain't you all admit it?
You do youselves a disservice as well as them that you're trying to protect.
If you look through blue tinted lenses, you will never see the truth and it will never set you free!
Ozark Iron John; please look at the two links and compare them. Then understand that the majority of people in Kentucky during the Civil War favored the US, not the CS. The majority of Kentucky men who died in POW camps died in CS ones. By ignoring this, ignoring the activities of the CS and implying all things evil came from the US you once again show your hand.
When you are done w/ the links below please note that not all people buried in a cemetery were killed in combat or even as a direct result of the war; the majority that died during the war years died of disease. If you had done the research you have claimed to have done you would know this.
Ozark I hope that you are doing better in Kentucky than you were in Missouri. But understand from either place you wore out your welcome here when you opted to slander the men and women on the Sharp End today. Your modern agenda is not welcome here.
I have seen the truth, it was told me by the letters and diaries of men who were there; not the stay behinders and wannabes who tried to rewrite history after the war.
As it is I bid you a good day.
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Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
What if Gen. Morgan had executed US Provost Marshals during his First Kentucky Raid?
Would Gen. Bragg's Kentucky Invasion turned out differently?
No. Braxton was still Braxton and he would still conducted the campaign the same way. Regardless of whether or not John Hunt Morgan off'd a few Provost Marshal's.
No. Braxton was still Braxton and he would still conducted the campaign the same way. Regardless of whether or not John Hunt Morgan off'd a few Provost Marshal's.
Ha Ha Ha Ha Haaaw! Now that is a good response. I concur whole heartily.
And I try not to quote it at all, if I can, for the reasons I gave above.
The only reason I did this time, was because our friend from North Texas felt it necessary to do so earlier in the thread. I find it interesting how you choose to criticize me for doing so though, yet apparently, did not even notice that fact. Is it becuase of some deep seated aversion to seeing things through a Southern set of lenses?
No, I did not criticize Timewalker's Bible quote because he was simply, IMO, echoing my own sentiments, that YOU seem only to concentrate on one sides acts while seemingly finding anything Southern as pure as the driven snow. In other words, sir, your biased, and your Bible quote merely confirmed that bias. The idea that you feel the need to suggest that one who posts here must have a "Southern set of lenses" vs. a "Northern set of lenses" merely proves to me you come this question with a preset agenda and are not willing to proceed from it in the form of a frank and nonbiased way.
Really Unionblue! I invite you to take a ride on the wild side. Throw Conventional Wisdom away and ride with John Hunt Morgan and Joseph Orville Shelby. If only for a day or two. It'll change your perspective on things.
I happen to live exactly on the trail of John Hunt Morgan's raid through Ohio, and have traced it many times. It was a bold and daring raid by an extraordinary man. And if he had done what you suggest, he would be a murderer, not a bold and daring soldier in the service of his country. If abandoning "Conventional Wisdom" is to become the lowest form of life on the planet by way of murder upon murder, revenge for revenge, with no end in sight, you have no chance to convince me of such. Even for a "day or two."
We can't help to be Union advocates Unionblue. It's in our genes. Our fathers and our grandfathers were FED on it. You won't get lost to the darkside sir. But you might see the light.
My vision is 20/20 when it comes to historical fact and I am very much aware of my responsibilities as a citizen of the Nation, having been FED on the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and the duties of a citizen.
If there are those who find the duties of citizenship too hard or too complicated, and who only wish to complain and pull down the shade on this Nation's abilities and opportunities, you have that right. The right to be left alone, left behind, and left out.
But don't whine because you have no say. Realize that you have surrendered that say because it was too tough to follow through with it.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
What else should we assume unionblue? Do you intend to suggest that all of these men and women, soldiers and civilians alike, died of wounds they received in combat? Are we to assume that they died trying to escape? Perhaps you'd have us believe that all of these brave souls, Americans all, died due to some crime committed on them by their fellow inmates?
I SUGGEST NOTHING, Blue.Raider88, nor do I ASSUME anything concerning the deaths of these men and women. What I do ask is where is your proof that they died because of some crime. You have yet to provide any. You're the one making the assumptions and suggestions, but you protest when you are asked to provide evidence of such.
I say to you, NO sir. They died at the hands of the tyrant. They died as a result of cruel mistreatment by evil federal authorities.
This is what you believe, but you have yet to prove it. Provide evidence of such and I'll listen and consider it. Keep repeating yourself without doingj such and you will not convince me of anything.
And don't even try to compare this horrible autrocity to what happened in Georgia, sir. There is NO comparisson. This prison camp was on the banks of the mighty Ohio river with easy access to food and medical services NOT out in the middle of nowhere in some back country farm.
The EXACT same comments can be made concerning Andersonville and other Confederate prisoners! Most of the farm country around those camps had been converted from cotton to food production and was available to those camps. There were even civilian groups who wished to provide food to Union prisioners within.
Admit it! The US Provost Marshalls in Kentucky were cruel and ruthless oppressors of anyone and anything Southern. They didn't hesitate to kill for their tyrant Lincoln.
We don't have to "Admit" anything as all we have at present is your own, biased, personal opinion, which you thought would not be challenged on a "What If" thread. Do the hard work and dig out the facts or simply admit this is simply your personal opinion.
Gen. Morgan ought to have strung them up in a tree every chance he got.
Again, I can only be thankful that Gen. Morgan could see past the immediate actions and considered the reprecusions of such an illogical action.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
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