Civil War History - "What if..." DiscussionsWhat if they had attacked instead of digging in...? What if he was in charge of the army instead...? Did you ever have a "What if..." question, and you weren't sure where to post it? Here's the place to ask these speculative questions!
What if the Confederacy would have been willing to give up the southwest territories west of Texas to bring Mexico into the war?
I can not think what the ramification of this would have been....
I believe Mexico could have fielded a one million man army...
Mexico could have had the man power needed for the south to be competitive in the Mississippi Theater...
A lot more ports to bring supplies in making it harded to blockade the south...
Maybe, European powers may have join the Southern cause if Mexico had allied with the Confederacy. Thinking the Union could not take on so many adversaries at one time believing victory for the south was inevitable...
Mexico could have helped the Southern cause in the Western war theater...
__________________
"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
What if the Confederacy would have been willing to give up the southwest territories west of Texas to bring Mexico into the war?
I can not think what the ramification of this would have been....
I believe Mexico could have fielded a one million man army...
Mexico could have had the man power needed for the south be been competitive in the Mississippi Theater...
A lot more ports to bring supplies in making it harded to blockade the south...
Maybe, European powers may have join the Southern cause if Mexico had allied with the Confederacy. Thinking the Union could not take on so many adversaries at one time believing victory for the south was inevitable...
Mexico could have helped the Southern cause in the Western war theater...
In early 1861 (well before the attack on Ft. Sumter, while Davis and the Provisional Congress were meeting in Montgomery to set up the new government), Mexico sent an official to discuss recognizing their new government and establishing diplomatic relations. Jefferson Davis refused to meet with the man because he felt it would be personally embarassing to do so if he ended by leading an invasion of Mexico in a couple of years.
Even while the Civil War raged, Confederate agents were active in northern Mexico trying to bribe governors and pave the way for future Confederate expansion.
All of this says many things. Among them, it says that some Confederates had extremely unrealistic ideas and desires for expansion and conquest. But primarily it says any deal Mexico made with the Confederates would be a "deal with the devil".
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
I knew this would be a tough question because most of us never thought about it.
I agree with trice that if Mexico had join the Southern cause it would have been making a deal with the devil.
The people who's wealth came from slavery coveted Cuba, Central America for expanding their precious slavery.
If the south had seceded from the Union, I could picture this new nation of CSA using military force to expand into Mexico, Central America, and the Caribbean Islands.
It would not have been to expand Republican Democracy or some noble goal but to expand their precious slavery.
For the South Slavery was like the Ring in "Lord of the Rings".....
__________________
"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
The only alliance I see working out would've been an agreement for the Mexicans to attack California and Union interests in the West. Considering the scope of the Civil War there is a strong likelihood Mexico could've suceeded.
I could even see Mexico flopping to the Union side after a seizure of California, ie. strike a deal with the Union to recognize the Reconquista, side with the Union and let the Mexicans attack Texas?
I have to agree that an alliance between Mexico and the Confederacy was highly unlikely. Especially a deal for the Confederacy to recognize any claims of Mexico to New Mexico, Arizona or California. Recall that the Confederacy claimed at least New Mexico and Arizona and tried to press that claim militarily (the Battle of Glorietta Pass, et al.)
If Mexico had indeed allied with the Confederacy, I think it would have been more trouble for Mexico than for the Union. An expedition to reconquer California would have been logistically almost impossible for Mexico. A U.S. fleet would quickly have conquered Vera Cruz (again) and cut off Mexico's largest source of revenue. Upon the dispatch of large numbers of troops north, civil unrest in Mexico would no doubt have reared its head with various factions vying for control, as indeed happened throughout Mexico's history.
All in all, a pretty bad deal for Mexico.
__________________ "There must be more historians of the Civil War than there were generals figthing in it... Of the two groups, the historians are the more belligerent." David Donald, Lincoln Reconsidered (1961)
I have to agree that an alliance between Mexico and the Confederacy was highly unlikely. Especially a deal for the Confederacy to recognize any claims of Mexico to New Mexico, Arizona or California. Recall that the Confederacy claimed at least New Mexico and Arizona and tried to press that claim militarily (the Battle of Glorietta Pass, et al.)
If Mexico had indeed allied with the Confederacy, I think it would have been more trouble for Mexico than for the Union. An expedition to reconquer California would have been logistically almost impossible for Mexico. A U.S. fleet would quickly have conquered Vera Cruz (again) and cut off Mexico's largest source of revenue. Upon the dispatch of large numbers of troops north, civil unrest in Mexico would no doubt have reared its head with various factions vying for control, as indeed happened throughout Mexico's history.
All in all, a pretty bad deal for Mexico.
Also unlikely because Jefferson Davis wanted a Confederate port on the Pacific with a RR connection to New Orleans. (He'd been a prime backer of the Gadsden Purchase to get water for that route after the Mexican War and had pushed for it while US Secretary of War and US Senator before he became Confederate President.) Hard to see how he makes that happen if he allows the Mexicans to occupy all the territory he needs.
In addition, Mexico was in disorder and in great financial trouble -- which was why the British, French and Spanish landed troops to collect debts in 1862, which turned into the French Emperor Maximillian adventure up until 1866. With war and revolution going on in their own country, it seems quite unlikely that they will be invading the US.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Besides which, from previous posts on this board, Davis had his own plans for Mexico, and they did not include entangling alliances.
Davis preferred negotiating with the Enfield, rather than the pen.
Whassa matter with mint margueritas? Sounds like a fine idea. Will check back in with the results in August.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
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What if Mexico Allied with the Confederacy? 
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