Civil War History - "What if..." DiscussionsWhat if they had attacked instead of digging in...? What if he was in charge of the army instead...? Did you ever have a "What if..." question, and you weren't sure where to post it? Here's the place to ask these speculative questions!
I think he would concentrate his forces at Corinth like Bo did. He would have retreated from Corinth like Bo did after Shiloh. He would not take sick leave from army (his health was ok) like Bo and so Jeff had to find another reason to sack him and place Bragg.
Just an offside question. Would Davis have replaced Beau if Beau hadn't given himself leave? That is, was Davis just looking for an excuse to put his buddy in command?
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Just an offside question. Would Davis have replaced Beau if Beau hadn't given himself leave? That is, was Davis just looking for an excuse to put his buddy in command?
From what I have read in Bo`s biography that IT was.
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Nico, Maréchal d'Empire
Last edited by Nico_Davout : 02-15-2008 at 06:16 PM.
From the get-go, the CSA had set itself an impossible task. It had to keep the yanks from invading over an impossibly long front with an insufficient number of under-supplied troops. And then it had Jeff Davis as its leader, chosing his old friends to lead the resistance.
Davis had the option on day one to avoid an invasion -- if it may be determined that an invasion was called for. It all devolves back to the declaration of war between the two secions at Sumter. I still figure that if Davis hadn't made that decision, there might have been a slim chance to let the erring sisters go.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
What do You say about that: Polk does not violate neutrality of Kentucky and the state goes with Union at slower rate. So there is no Buell marching in february 1862 on Nashville. Is there a Grant moving through rivers flowing through Kentucky state?
Probably. Polk's move did irritate the Kaintucks to the point that a goodly many of them would have put up with anything rather than to have Polk/s forces in the state. Naturally, it's not that simple, but Polk's move did start the ball rolling.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Just an offside question. Would Davis have replaced Beau if Beau hadn't given himself leave? That is, was Davis just looking for an excuse to put his buddy in command?
ole
Ole,
Jefferson Davis did have an unfortunate penchant for favoring his buddies -- Leonidas Polk being the most famous example. But Bragg was not one of them. I'm too lazy to go searching at the moment, but my recollection is that Davis and Bragg had not been close at all and there was even some "history" between them. My guess is that, however uncomfortable Davis was growing with Beauregard, he would not (and as a practical matter could not, given Beauregard's rank and status as the hero of Sumter) have replaced him if Beauregard had not gone AWOL.
Speaking of Polk, in a later post you refer to his violation of Kentucky's claimed neutrality. In my view, this was probably the second single most stupid act of the War (the decision to bombard Fort Sumter being the first). It moved Kentucky prematurely into the Union column, and for absolutely no purpose. The Columbus position was useless (as Grant's flanking maneuver at Fort Henry soon showed). Davis should have immediately ordered Polk out of the state and issued a formal apology. For good measure, he should also have had him court martialed.
"Despite the dangers and privations they had shared in Mexico, and the fact that each admired the other's conduct on the field of battle, there was little kind feeling between Braxton Bragg and Jefferson Davis. . . . In December 1855 Bragg went to Washington to discuss the matter [the stationing of artillery (and Bragg) on the frontier] with Davis personally and, failing to get any satisfaction from the secretary of war, turned in his resignation. Davis promptly accepted it. Bragg hated Davis for that . . . .
"When the war came . . . Bragg received a commission as a brigadier general . . .. The South needed the services of every good officer it had, and in any case, the animosity between Davis and Bragg was probably less strong on Davis's side. (Davis had a way of making people extremely angry with him and then wondering what it was that had upset them.)"
Steven E. Woodworth, Jefferson Davis and His Generals: The Failure of Confederate Command in the West, at 92-93.
Whatever the exact state of their relations at the beginning of the war, Bragg did not advance because he was a "Friend of Jeff."
I know of two versions of event regarding the removal of Beauregard.
The first is the more well known version of events which is that, after being constantly beaten out west, Beauregard removed himself from command for "healt" reasons and neglected to infom anybody. Davis found out a few days laters that Beauregard had abandoned his command and removed him perminately, replacing him with Bragg and sending him to South Carolina as a kind of punishment.
The other version is this. Beauregard informed Adjutant-General Samuel Cooper that he would be taking a week to ten days off for health reasons. Davis, seeing this as a opportunity, removed Beauregard claiming he was absent without leave and replace him with Bragg.
To my knowledge, the first version of events is Davis' version and the second is Beauregard's.
Either way it is clear that Davis didn't want Beauregard in command. Davis wanted A.S. Johnston but since he was dead he wanted Braxton Bragg, a man he knew well before the war and respected as a military man. Davis neither liked nor respected Beauregard.
On the issue of the Bragg-Davis relationship:
I know that the general idea, as far as these two is concerned, is that they were close friends and that Davis supported Bragg bacause of that. There is evidence that goes against this version as elektratig states.
However Davis must have had at least some respect for Bragg because not only did Bragg advance to an Army command but he was placed in a somewhat powerful position in Davis' administration when he was removed from that command.
When the AoT rebelled against Bragg and Davis refused to remove him and there are two different versions of why Bragg remained in command. The first is that Davis wasn't prepared to remove his friend from command which, if they were not friends, is not a viable option. The other version is that Davis didn't remove Bragg because he could find no "suitable" replacement for him. No doubt this version of events goes by the idea that Davis seemed to go by that Defensive generals were not good enough.
I think that Davis probably liked Bragg as a general, even if he didn't like him as a person, and concidered him the most competant of generals outside the ANV...following the death of A.S. Johnston...and thus he was unable to look past his own preferances to see Bragg's faults as a General and so concidered no one suitable to replace him.
Whatever the case I think it can be generally agreed that Bragg was the Commander of the AoT for too long...if indeed you even believe he should have been commander at all.
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"I would rather be a private in Virginia's army than a general in any army that was going to coerce her." - General JEB Stuart CSA
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Joe Johnston instead of Beauregard 
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