Civil War History - "What if..." DiscussionsWhat if they had attacked instead of digging in...? What if he was in charge of the army instead...? Did you ever have a "What if..." question, and you weren't sure where to post it? Here's the place to ask these speculative questions!
The Apex of the confederate V is pointed to a ford of the river (one of the few, where the South (confederate) Bank of the North Anna is higher than its North (Union) side.
AHAH! That do make a difference. Thanks for the added detail Opn.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
If Lee had been able to set his trap he would probably have done major damage to Grant's army.
"Probably" don't exactly fly, Ter61. How about "maybe"? Others may have fallen for it; Grant may have fallen for it. But I disagree with "probably." Grant was different.
He was frequently lucky, but for every time he was lucky, he was very quick to turn tables to his advantage. And that, is a battlefield general.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
"Probably" don't exactly fly, Ter61. How about "maybe"? Others may have fallen for it; Grant may have fallen for it. But I disagree with "probably." Grant was different.
He was frequently lucky, but for every time he was lucky, he was very quick to turn tables to his advantage. And that, is a battlefield general.
ole
Grant was "Lucky", The question is: Did Lee's AoNV still have enough offensive punch left in it to cause serious damage to Hancock's corp..
Some where during the Overland campaign Lee's army lost it's ability to deliver an effective offensive strike.
As others have already noted North Anna led Grant to disaster at Cold Harbor, which led to Grant's planning and stealing the march on Lee to Petersburg.
Whether lucky or unlucky, Grant always moved South. Success or failure, both only encouranged grant to press on to his chosen goal.
Some where during the Overland campaign Lee's army lost it's ability to deliver an effective offensive strike.
5fish, I don't believe Lee was able to deliver an offensive punch during the entire Overland Campaign. From the beginning, and correct me if I'm wrong, Lee's army played defense the entire time, all the way to Petersburg. Until Grant took over, nobody had really pushed Lee, and kept up the pressure. Lee took several defensive positions, of course, which were the clashes that occurred during the campaign, but after each one he turned and headed further south, with Grant hot on his heels. As OPN said, whether Grant was lucky or unlucky, he always moved south hot on the heels of the ANV. He was a bulldog. IMHO.
Terry
__________________ "In this great struggle, this form of Government and every form of human right is endangered if our enemies succeed. There is more involved in this contest than is realized by every one." Abraham Lincoln - August 18, 1864 Speech to the 164th Ohio Regiment
As an Armchair general, I sense from the other Armchair generals, no matter what Grant was going to move south even if Lee had managed to maul Hancock.
Lets say, Hancock would have lost 15,000 or 20,000 men to death and wounds in one day. Grant was being branded a "Butcher" around this time so a lost of life on that scale could not have forced Lincoln to sack Grant due to the politics of the day. "The Election is just months away"
To Ole: When I said probably I did not mean it was certain that Lee would have damaged Grant's army if he had set his trap. Ok I will say maybe. You are right, Grant was a great general and could turn things around to his advantage. Grant did admit that Lee could have struck a severe blow to the Union army on the North Anna River. If Lee's army had been at its best Lee might have been able to make his trap work. I don't believe Grant would have retreated but his job might have been harder.
That's what I have always admired about Grant - he learned from his setbacks and he never gave up. One could say that as a result of Forrest and Van Dorn destroying his supplies in his first drive on Vicksburg, he learned to live off the land, leading to his cutting his supply lines in his final drive on Vicksburg.
The Vicksburg Campaign (one of my favorites) shows the "bulldog tenacity" noted by others, above. Seven failed attempts to take the fortress city didn't seem to phase him at all, nor did his initial repulse on the eight attempt at Grand Gulf. I do not think Lee was prepared to meet a foe so fundamentally diferent from all he had faced so far. Before, every time he bloodied the AoP, they retreated, refitted, and came on some months later - or waited for Lee to take the initiative. Grant didn't. Lose? So what? Move around to the left and keep on coming.
Since Grant was now in overall command of the Union forces, I do not think that the mauling of one or even two Corps could have stopped him. He'd just pull in reinforcements from elsewhere and keep on marching.
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