Civil War History - "What if..." DiscussionsWhat if they had attacked instead of digging in...? What if he was in charge of the army instead...? Did you ever have a "What if..." question, and you weren't sure where to post it? Here's the place to ask these speculative questions!
Ole wrote: "The Confederacy was not a good idea from the get go. Appointing JD to run it wasn't very perceptive, either."
I'll give you a 65 on that one. No argument on Davis.
As for the original notion of the Confederacy which had much to do with the Constitution, it was an effort by southern states to level the economic and political playing field.
Half funded, poorly organized, understaffed, bad idea. 600,000 dead people certainly proved that point.
__________________ Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
Considering the past experiences in Revolution/1812/Mexican War, it makes you wonder if both sides had no idea what they were getting into. Makes you wonder if you were to tell Davis and Lincoln what the total butcher's bill for the war would be in 1861 whether they still would've gone for it.
I'll bet Lincoln would have gone for it. His visions for the worldwide implications of this Republic were so great that he'd have paid the price -- and he did.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
"Lt. Gen. James Longstreet advocated an entirely different Course of Action." Few seem to contemplate why Longstreet was wrong.
The Confederate Corps were already short of supplies. Lee said so in his Gettysburg report, giving that as one of his reason for attacking Union lines at Gettysburg.
The ANV also was short of artillery ammunition, or as it was greatly put, it had enough ammunition for one good battle.
It would have been a great mistake for the Confederate army to get any closer to Baltimore and Washington, the supply base for the Union army. Because of the rains, other than on Gettysburg battle days, there were not many options for the Confederate army to cross back into Virginia. I don't think a retreat from the Westminster area, would have been as successful, as the one from Gettysburg.
Lee had no business attempting a "siege" of Baltimore or Washington. The AoP would win that logistical battle hands down. Lee previously ruled out any success of a siege in that area.
Longstreet was essentially arguing to get between Meade and Washington and to compel an assault by Meade on Lee's terms. If Lee wins the campaign, there's not going to be a siege, the war is going to end.
As noted above, time was not an ally of Lee's, his stay in Pa. was of necessity, limited. Good luck on getting Meade to attack any time soon.
The sparring that went on between Lee and Meade in N. Va. after Gettysburg, showed Meade to be much more careful and nimble in maneuvering, than his predecessors.
Given Meade belief that it was pointless to attack Lee, because even if Lee were defeated (something Meade apparently could not really concieve of), he would only retreat south to be fought again later, it is unlikely that if outmaneuvered, Meade would have automatically attacked, very quickly, If At All.
More likely Meade would have executed his own turning movement, to restablish his Lines to the Washington Defenses.
Longstreet was essentially arguing to get between Meade and Washington and to compel an assault by Meade on Lee's terms. If Lee wins the campaign, there's not going to be a siege, the war is going to end.
On the surface, it sounds like an excellent plan to get between Meade and Washington/Baltimore. Meade would have been forced to attack Lee on ground of Lee's choosing. Or would he?
I believe Lee went to Pennsylvania with a least a hope that he could bring the AotP into a situation where Lee gets to chose the field. That seems to a rather short-sighted plan. Lee's supply line (with what little supply as he could glean) was roughly from Winchester to Gettysburg through hostile territory. His wagons and animals were not at the peak of health.
His men were eating quite well. Presumably his horses were, as well. But. When the AoNV was stopped outside of Gettysburg, the foraging also stopped. From that point on, the supply line was his source.
Interpose the AoNV between Meade and Washington? Meade wouldn't have had to attack. And he'd have Meade in his front with a considerable number of garrison toops at his back. No foraging and no supply line. Oooops. Maybe that's why Lee was the commander and Longstreet was the subordinate?
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
If Meade isn't going to assault Lee at Williamsport, then he clearly isn't going to assault an unmolested Lee either, I agree, I don't think Meade is actually going to make the assault that Longstreet envisions. BUT, if Lincoln issues a peremptory order to assault Lee, it could still theoretically happen and if routed, the war, at least in my opinion, would be over.
What if Gen. Longstreet had gone West in the Spring
Lincoln was too good a strategist to order Meade to attack Lee (who was ALSO in position, 'between' Meade and Washington and Baltimore.)
Like all other AoP Commanders, Meade's standing orders was not only to locate and fight Lee, but to remember that the army was also the covering force for Washington D.C.
Knowing Meade, it is more than likely that he would remember to cover Washington rathern than fight Lee.
And we have overlooked a time factor. If Lincoln had ordered Meade to attack immediately (and I'll agree that he would not likely have), Meade could have easily hid behind a couple three days of "preparation." Lee could not afford to wait that long. No one could effectively fault Meade for the delay, Lee has to run for his life.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
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